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Bulgaria is the world’s fastest-shrinking country

bbc.com

71–80 of 319 posts

Re: Bulgaria is the world’s fastest-shrinking country

#71
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope the new Greek government manages to compete with this, so the next post will advertise Greece in this way. Most of your list applies here as well, except we have amazing food and beaches.

Seconding this. I was recently for 2 weeks in Santorini, which is considered pretty expensive compared to the rest of Greece, and everything was actually very affordable (esp. if you learn to keep your distance from the more tourist-infested areas). The whole time during my stay I kept thinking how nice it would be to work from there. Clear blue sky, beaches and fresh grilled fish. Wow.

I can't recommend Crete enough. Spent out 2nd part of honeymoon there last month, its big, variable, great food, overall cheap, great history, the weather is milder compared to many other Greek islands and even in September the sea had 26 degrees.

High mountains, deep gorges (Samaria was the highlight), probably the best olive oil in whole Europe (but this is valid for whole Greece).

OK back to work, that dreamy look on my face is pretty revealing

Re: Bulgaria is the world’s fastest-shrinking country

#72
post #8

Okay, let me draw a picture for you as someone who contributed to Bulgaria's shrinkage. It all starts in 1989, communist Bulgaria decides that it no longer wants its Turkish minority and a large number of people are deported or "let go" to Turkey. BBC has a short documntary on it[0]. Houses and lands are abandoned and only those who are too weak to immigrate remain. Congratulations, now you have ghost-city like place…

Thank you for taking the time to write from experience, very insightful.

Out of curiosity, when did you leave and for where? Hope it worked out great for you.

Re: Bulgaria is the world’s fastest-shrinking country

#73
post #30

I’ve been living in Bulgaria for the past 4 months, bootstrapping my startup. I can say Bulgaria is a great place to come due to its affordable cost of living, comparable to Thailand/Bali, but easy access to European cities, for me it was the best choice. The community of digital workers in Bansko, Bulgaria is really growing.

Can u mention the best/walkable/sociable neighbourhoods for a visiting developer in Sophia and/or Bansko? thanks

I highly recommend Co-working Bansko (https://coworkingbansko.com/).

It's a mountain ski village in the south of Bulgaria, there is an abundance of modern style flats which sit mostly vacant in the summer months, as well as the charming old town, this makes accommodation very affordable (much cheaper than the capital, Sophia).

Cost of a small studio flat is about 350 BGN per month, a lunch is about 5 BGN, a large dinner about 12 BGN.

There's about 100 members in Coworking Bansko and has two locations in Bansko, one close to the Ski lift (convenient in the Winter if you like to Snowboard/Ski) the other in the Old Town. A third site is underway in a building where many coworkers own their own flats (flats are cheap to purchase outright).

Re: Bulgaria is the world’s fastest-shrinking country

#74
Bulgarian here, there are a lot of aspects the article does not cover.

First one is that up until 1989, Bulgaria was largely an agriculture state with the soviet union being the only market. A heavily controlled market at that. Some might argue that Bulgaria used to produce computers but it was mostly a small assembly line using Intel chips, so no, not really. Mind you the math education was on a good level, hence the reason why so many people can easily jump into cs. But families like most rural countries tended to be large. I happen to have a family tree dating back to the late 17-th century and most of the people back then had 8+ children. Needless to say, that isn't the case anymore. Looking at people around me, I can only think of one or two examples that have more than 1 child. Combine that with the other factors in the articles and you start seeing the bigger picture.

Now, on immigration: I was a child in the early 90's when the first real information from the west started coming in. And as people tend to do, we only saw what we wanted to see. I grew up daydreaming about the day I'd move west where everything is bread and butter. And I did as early as I could: I was ~16 at the time. I was pretty disappointed in a lot of aspects: life abroad was not as advertised. It turned out to be complicated and rough. Yes, roads were better, streats were cleaner and people had a tendency to try to maintain the environment around them. Something which has started to happen here noticably. But there I was faced with entirely new problems which I would have never imagined could exist in the real world.

As I went through university, some other rough moments hit me hard and at the end I was so fed up, I wanted to move away from there. As I was talking to old friends, I figured that as a software engineer with a university degree, moving back to Bulgaria might be a possible option. Back then getting a work permit was still difficult as a new EU member state so I decided to skip the hassle and move back and give it a shot. Bottom line is it turned out to be a a great solution.

Like most market economies these days, young people and by extension working people gravitate towards the big cities. And naturally the smaller cities are dying out.

Because life is incredibly cheap compared to most of Europe, your odds of making a decent life are much greater - the bar can be set much lower. To give you an idea - my monthly paycheck at my first job was just over 700 euros(underpaid even for a developer with little to no experience). I had rent, bills, transportation and food to take care of and even with that, I was still able to save up around 250/month. Something unthinkable for most European capitals on such a tight budget. Now, many years later, things look really well for me.

Ocassionally you do hear someone on the streets saying something along the lines of "See this points at something, this would never happen in any other country". Since what I've said here has been a subject of discussion with many friends, we usually look at each other, roll our eyes and walk away. Which brings me to the final point:

The article doesn't cover the large amount of people returning home after spending years abroad either. And looking at many of my friends, the number is pretty high: a good 60-70% at a glance. Far not only software engineers(who on average make a few times the national average).

What I'm trying to say is that a lot of people still live with the illusion that in countries such as France, Germany, Italy and so on, everyone has a 1000 square meter mansion with 2 hellicopters and a collection of one-off hypercars. Which is not to say that my life abroad was a bad experience - on the contrary. If anything, it made me a lot more resiliant and capable of handling difficult situations. As a matter of fact I'd encourage young people to pack a bag and move abroad for a year while you are still 19(referring to the intro of the first book of the Dark Tower series titled "What it's like to be 19").

Re: Bulgaria is the world’s fastest-shrinking country

#77
In Ukraine very common service to get EU citizenship by "making" family roots in Bulgaria. It costs about 3000+ euros to make a new passport. And waiting time is about 1.5 years from what I know from people who actually bought such service.

I wandering doest it counted here? Can be decline numbers much bigger if count all people from Russia and Ukraine who made their new passports this way.

Re: Bulgaria is the world’s fastest-shrinking country

#78
post #22

Random facts from living 3 months there on why this could be a high potential country: * 10% income tax (second lowest in EU), 5% dividend tax * Very low costs of living (rent is 300-400 eur for a flat in Sofia) * Relatively easy to start companies * It's quite safe, at least safer than Naples from where I am from * Very good quality of food * Close to the seaside (about 3 hours from Greek coast also) * Nice summers…

> * 10% income tax (second lowest in EU), 5% dividend tax

But you you have very high social insurance, pension and other welfare fees, just like in any ex-bloc country. They will amount to 30%+ of employment cost.

Re: Bulgaria is the world’s fastest-shrinking country

#79
post #43

The current situation there is very sad indeed, and it hurts me double because half my family still lives there, but all hope is not lost. We are a country that has persevered countless setbacks throughout history, bearing the brunt of the islamic invasion, the wrong choices in the two world wars and the subsequent sovietization, and we still stand. The tide will turn, I have no doubt.

We may have done those things, but not remotely. Let's see how this one goes. Иване, "there" и "we" някак не се връзва.

There are many ways to participate, and with modern communications and relative ease of travel, you could keep track and don't loose connections, even if you are not phisically "there". Also, having the perspective from living under different set of rules, allows you to compare and propose changes back home. Many, many bulgarians abroad still care deeply about our beautiful country and I personally know several who have returned to try and fight the fight on home turf. And you certainly are aware that throughout history large bulgarian diasporas all around the Balkans and beyond have been involved with preserving culture, language and shared history and that begginning of the 20th Century it was standard practice to go study in Western Europe or Russia and come back home with top notch education. You sure are also aware that believing in good strong education is one of the tenets of our people, that has endured uninterrupted for more than a half millennium, from the times of the Paisius of Hilendar,through our unique, and unfortunately lost community cultural centers[O] and up until today.

It is not going to be easy to revive that spirit, but "we" have no choice but to try and be юнаци :)

[0] Random search gave me the following paper: http://tru.uni-sz.bg/tsj/TJS_Suppl.1_Vol.15_2017/76.pdf

Re: Bulgaria is the world’s fastest-shrinking country

#80

A side effect of a stagnant economy and population shrinkage is that Bulgarian property is really cheap. You can purchase a modern flat starting around $15,000 (or rent for really cheap) in a ski community with a very strong remote worker presence (Bansko). If you do this right, you can also become a resident and benefit from a flat 10% income tax which is lowest in the EU. No affiliation; I just find this type of ar…

I have a company in Bulgaria while working remotely for a high-salary EU country, and it's almost shocking to realise how much you spend on taxes in most European countries when you see the difference in your bank account.

It's quite a good deal if you want to be a digital nomad since it's an EU country and you can get a really small apartment for almost nothing to use as your official address while travelling. (You'll have to be at least fiscally resident there)

Feel free to PM me if you want some tips on how to get things set up there.

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