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What if we stopped pretending the climate apocalypse can be stopped?

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Re: What if we stopped pretending the climate apocalypse can be stopped?

#71

Post by berrynice »

jacobwilliamroy wrote: post #18
tormeh wrote: post #2

Really disheartened that it will hit during my lifetime. Had hoped to dodge it, really. How do you, as an individual, prepare for this?

Basic stuff. Learn horticulture, soil science. Understand whether or not your area is viable for a sustainable settlement and move along if it's not. Best to do all your moving while you can still afford to drive. Do exercise, strength training, cardio. Bodyweight stuff or yoga is great for everyday life activities. How far can you carry 60 pounds of supplies and equipment? Make friends, obviously. Learn how to resol…

It's also probably a good idea to learn how to resolve conflicts violently and accept the consequences of that.

Re: What if we stopped pretending the climate apocalypse can be stopped?

#72

Post by gshdg »

gambiting wrote: post #43
Bombthecat wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But would there be a difference between 5 and 6?

From what I understand no - warming by 5 degrees will cause all phytoplankton to die off and as a result we'll run out of oxygen(not immediately of course, but we inevitably will).

How long do the pessimistic projections say we have until 5 degrees?

Re: What if we stopped pretending the climate apocalypse can be stopped?

#73

Post by berrynice »

antiutopian wrote: post #27

There are measures we can take against climate change, they just go against the structural needs of the capitalist system. If governments continue to put the continuation of the system above the needs of the environment, then of course we won't see serious action. The author accepts that this is a permanent state of affairs and attributes it incorrectly to "human nature" when in reality it reflects the present weakne…

You're not going to be able to kill capitalism before things go really wrong, modern capitalism still has a stranglehold on us all and it probably won't fall until climate change kicks into high gear and eradicates huge portions of the western population. At least the anprims will be happy.

Re: What if we stopped pretending the climate apocalypse can be stopped?

#74

Post by jobigoud »

chillacy wrote: post #31

There are now 3 positions in american discourse on climate change: 1. It's not happening / not real 2. It's happening and we can still prevent it 3. It's happening and it's worse than we all think Externalities aren't correctly priced into our market and we're suffering the consequences.

The third option should be more contrasted with the second one. It's: 3. It's happening and we can't prevent it so there is no point doing anything.

People that refuse to consider changing their lifestyle will happily leap frog from 1 to 3.

Re: What if we stopped pretending the climate apocalypse can be stopped?

#75

Post by tempsolution »

NeedMoreTea wrote: post #65
tempsolution wrote: post #60

It is a bit like with a formula one car. If you go through the curve with 100 mph, you will die, because you really need to go through the curve at 200 mph for aerodynamics to give you enough downward force to keep you on the track... We are in a very similar situation here. We need to aggressively speed up and focus our engineering efforts to understand nature and to potentially "suck the gases out of the atmosphere…

If we can't keep biosphere 1.0 viable, we have bugger all chance of creating a viable and sustainable extra planetary one. Besides how many launches will be needed to get 7bn to biosphere 2.0? Whatever the answer it's cheaper and easier to address AGW right here, right now. Or does your backup plan only involve sending a tiny few off planet?...

Why would you think that we send 7bn people into space? There should not have been 7bn people to start with. It just happened because somehow species tend to multiply until their environment can't sustain further growth. In space, it will be MUCH harder to sustain a population, as a result, the population there will be much smaller (think of maybe 100.000), at least in the early stages.

I agree that we should be able to save the earth. I think both are possible and also intertwined, because whatever our solution, it will likely require advanced capabilities to deploy technology into earth's orbit, be it large scale solar shielding, some atmosphere transformers, or whatever.

Still, repairing earth and creating space ships are two different things. We did not design earth, and the size of it makes it hard to control. It will be MUCH easier to sustain life in an underground lab (or space ship) than it is to repair earth. At least conceptually. But of course you have a point that we should not abandon most of the population for two reasons:

1. It's a bit cruel and probably only the worst of mankind will survive again, as it always did.

2. Project "Space" might turn out to be one hell of a disaster, since it's hard to predict how humans will fare in space. So we should have a backup plan.

Re: What if we stopped pretending the climate apocalypse can be stopped?

#76

Post by gshdg »

robomartin wrote: post #41

The problem with climate change is that it has now solidly left the realm of the scientific to enter politics. Here’s the truth: We cannot do a thing about it. This is scientific fact, not my opinion. I invite everyone to reproduce my conclusion. Here’s how to do it: Question: How long would it take for a 100 ppm drop in atmospheric CO2 concentration if humanity, along with all of our technology, evaporated from this…

We may not be able to remove that CO2, but we could stop adding more.

Re: What if we stopped pretending the climate apocalypse can be stopped?

#77

Post by gnusty_gnurc »

chillacy wrote: post #31

There are now 3 positions in american discourse on climate change: 1. It's not happening / not real 2. It's happening and we can still prevent it 3. It's happening and it's worse than we all think Externalities aren't correctly priced into our market and we're suffering the consequences.

There’s another somewhat marginal position of: change is happening and it’s not “the apocalypse”

Re: What if we stopped pretending the climate apocalypse can be stopped?

#78

Post by jobigoud »

adrianN wrote: post #50
ForHackernews wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are you so sure of that? We've been trying it your way for 40 years and gotten nowhere https://www.reddit.com/r/comics/comments/c5rjs2/its_that_eas... Maybe telling everyone the truth at this late stage will produce some kind of meaningful reflection. Even it doesn't, it'll still just be the status quo.

"It's too late for meaningful action" doesn't sound like a slogan that inspires unprecendented change.

Yes but at the same time not enough people truly believed scientists when they said it was critical, so maybe people won't quite believe the "point of no return" aspect either, and will just react from the remorse of having fucked up the ecosystem. I'm not advocating that approach (yet) but just want to point that it's not a guaranteed failure.

Re: What if we stopped pretending the climate apocalypse can be stopped?

#79

Post by adrianN »

jbattle wrote: post #47
i_am_proteus wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which all conveniently line up with one major political platform. "If you frightened by the coming climate cataclysm, then you should also agree with me on everything ." It's very well-written, but it's not rational. The content is more political than scientific.

Deciding on what choices to make in response to the climate changing is inherently political. Science can inform the process but can't tell us which selection of responses is "most valid".

It would be really nice though if politicians would trust scientists to tell them which "solutions" don't actually solve the problem at all.

Re: What if we stopped pretending the climate apocalypse can be stopped?

#80

Post by adrianN »

hyperman1 wrote: post #62
reallydude wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The survival of our technological civilization is very much uncertain. It has been since the nuclear age. If someone wanted to take meaningful action, they would be sinking container ships. In aggregate, they contribute to more pollution (of all kinds), than most singular countries. Nobody is going to war over this, so it's inevitable. If it's inevitable, it's not healthy to pretend otherwise. The earth will survive,…

Serious question: I always see 'humans will survive' in these kinds of posts. Why? We know most of the past species are extinct, we are in the middle of a mass extinction event, the climate crisis hasn't even fully begun, and there are other serious problems coming. So I don't want to be negative, but I do want to stay realistic. Does someone know why humans will survive, and on which time scale this prediction is va…

If push comes to shove a breeding population can survive for millenia in underground caves huddled around breeder reactors.
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