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GM Is Now Detroit’s Smallest Auto-Making Employer

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Re: GM Is Now Detroit’s Smallest Auto-Making Employer

#71

Post by Maarten88 »

TorKlingberg wrote: post #68
AmVess wrote: post #8

They are pushing production and engineering to anywhere not the USA, so this trend of having fewer workers isn't going to stop until all that's left of GM is the headquarters. I'm not Chicken-Littling either. This trend has been many decades in the making, and it only has one logical endpoint. I was looking at their trucks, and left the showroom when I saw one that had 45% domestic content. I bought a truck that had…

Do people in other countries care about the percentage domestic content in this way?

As someone from an EU country with no domestic caranufacturers: we don't care at all. We buy German. French, Japanese, Korean, Italian and even some US cars. Not many, see the Top Gear review of the F-150 to understand why.

My country does not have car manufacturers, but still supplies a lot of parts to car manufacturers around the world. My BMW was assembled in the US. Not in our neighboring Germany. The car manufacturing industry is much more geographically integrated than most people assume.

Re: GM Is Now Detroit’s Smallest Auto-Making Employer

#72

Post by dagw »

castratikron wrote: post #36
track_me_now wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a good question because all the manufacturers are totally integrated; It's really hard to determine "where a car is made" because of parts and sub-assembly. That said, several of the car sites tally up the origin of the parts and assembly and calculate the percentage (likely on a value-added basis) to determine "domestic content": https://www.cars.com/american-made-index/

Maybe I don't understand what this is measuring but wouldn't Teslas be close to all-American? They even make the battery cells in the same site as the rest of the car I think. They don't show up anywhere on that list.

From the page describing the report:

"Tesla declined to furnish enough information to be included in the 2019 American-Made Index."

Re: GM Is Now Detroit’s Smallest Auto-Making Employer

#73

Post by pjc50 »

TorKlingberg wrote: post #68
AmVess wrote: post #8

They are pushing production and engineering to anywhere not the USA, so this trend of having fewer workers isn't going to stop until all that's left of GM is the headquarters. I'm not Chicken-Littling either. This trend has been many decades in the making, and it only has one logical endpoint. I was looking at their trucks, and left the showroom when I saw one that had 45% domestic content. I bought a truck that had…

Do people in other countries care about the percentage domestic content in this way?

There have been occasional limp "Buy British" campaigns, but the UK car industry's reputation for poor quality kind of sank it in the 80s. I'm not sure how many buyers could tell you which Nissan/Ford/Vauxhall (Opel) models are made in the UK any more.

Re: GM Is Now Detroit’s Smallest Auto-Making Employer

#74

Post by bumby »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #45
bumby wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know much in this arena, but there's at least some evidence that automation may be double the job risk as outsourcing[0] https://talkbusiness.net/2017/07/ball-state-study-automation...

The difference between automation and outsourcing is that automation can actually save domestic jobs. Labor costs are lower in other countries and that is likely to continue, so for US workers to stay competitive they need to be more productive and justify the higher compensation. Which is what automation does -- you get more cars for the same number of labor hours, justifying the higher wages. That means you get a c…

I follow your point, but I'm not sure the research or my personal experience proves that to be true.

In some cases, automation leads to net job growth (e.g., there are more bank tellers now than before the invention of ATMs), but I think that is the exception rather than the rule. Especially in manufacturing, automation absolutely guts jobs. A line that was run by dozens can be run by a just a couple. The balance is so far to one side I think it's hard to make a case that automation saves many jobs. It seems to me that the paradox you bring up would only apply to very limited use cases; I don't know many products people would want to increase consumption on scale with the job loss for that to work. But I may be biased by my automation experience in high dollar products.

Example: I know of an onion farmer who recently automated. Even if all other onion farmers automated im not going to 5x my consumption of onions, and that's a low cost product

Re: GM Is Now Detroit’s Smallest Auto-Making Employer

#75

Post by hansthehorse »

Krasnol wrote: post #38
stankal wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2015 Silverado owner, my first “American” car. Got it new, now have 75k miles on it. Went with an American brand because of “they know trucks”. So far, replaced catalytic converter, have a driver seat that shifts when I turn right (quoted $800 to fix), have a touch screen that works when it wants and goes crazy switching between views on its own (dealer said they can replace it for $1000, but the new one may start do…

According to the page OP provided here: > The Chevrolet Silverado 1500 LD and GMC Sierra 1500 Limited, both carryover models from the prior generations, come from Canada. https://www.cars.com/articles/cars-coms-2019-american-made-i...

I bought a brand new 1969 Chevelle SS and it was made in Canada.

Re: GM Is Now Detroit’s Smallest Auto-Making Employer

#76

Post by dsfyu404ed »

nolok wrote: post #52
wcunning wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oooph, as someone in the automotive industry, I would avoid that thing like the plague. Have you checked the recall for going through the car wash causing that truck to light on fire[0]? One burned down at my neighborhood convenience store a couple of weeks ago... I would much much much more readily trust the engineering of GM on trucks, but that's probably only meaningful if you actually intend to tow something. I h…

There is literally a war named after the Hilux because it was such a combination of cheap and super reliable despite the terrible conditions that it’s what all the local warlords used. There is a top gear episode where they roll over one with a monster truck several times and it refuses to stop working. Toyota doesn’t need any lessons from us manufacturers about reliability.

I'm really tired of this "hurr-durr Hilux indestructible" meme. They used it because they were there and available. In areas with limited supply chain infrastructure there is very much a network effect when it comes to machines that need a pretty substantial supply chain. It would have been the S10 war or the Ranger war had GM or Ford been the dominant manufacturer in that region. Toyota does not make cars that are magically immune to the laws of physics. They degrade with use like everything else and eventually suffer mechanical failure.

Re: GM Is Now Detroit’s Smallest Auto-Making Employer

#77

Post by somebadguy »

wcunning wrote: post #18
AmVess wrote: post #8

They are pushing production and engineering to anywhere not the USA, so this trend of having fewer workers isn't going to stop until all that's left of GM is the headquarters. I'm not Chicken-Littling either. This trend has been many decades in the making, and it only has one logical endpoint. I was looking at their trucks, and left the showroom when I saw one that had 45% domestic content. I bought a truck that had…

Oooph, as someone in the automotive industry, I would avoid that thing like the plague. Have you checked the recall for going through the car wash causing that truck to light on fire[0]? One burned down at my neighborhood convenience store a couple of weeks ago... I would much much much more readily trust the engineering of GM on trucks, but that's probably only meaningful if you actually intend to tow something. I h…

No wonder the American auto industry is going to shit if you are a representation of it

Clueless

Re: GM Is Now Detroit’s Smallest Auto-Making Employer

#78

Post by dsfyu404ed »

sk5t wrote: post #24
wcunning wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oooph, as someone in the automotive industry, I would avoid that thing like the plague. Have you checked the recall for going through the car wash causing that truck to light on fire[0]? One burned down at my neighborhood convenience store a couple of weeks ago... I would much much much more readily trust the engineering of GM on trucks, but that's probably only meaningful if you actually intend to tow something. I h…

Agreed on the Ridgeline, it packs neither capability nor efficiency. OTOH, a Lexus GX or Land Cruiser should do fine for modest towing duty, reliability, and low-ish depreciation.

>it packs neither capability nor efficiency.

There's something to be said for an Odyssey with an uncovered cargo area (the styling on the current generation really drives that point home IMO). For that kind of use the Ridgeline is great.

Re: GM Is Now Detroit’s Smallest Auto-Making Employer

#79

Post by dsfyu404ed »

tbyehl wrote: post #66
Pywarrior wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except you didn't buy a truck, you bought a tall unibody car with a bed. It has vastly less utility than a frame based truck/suv. If you are happy that's great and ultimately that is all that matters, but to compare ridgeline to silverado or f-150 is just plain wrong, apples and oranges.

Not a Ridgeline owner, but... the reality of pickup ownership in America is that on average they never get used for things that couldn't be done with a wagon or small SUV. Which makes the Ridgeline the best truck out there for most people who buy pickups -- the in-bed storage is super practical, the flat floor provides more usable space in the bed, towing capacity is reasonable for a U-haul / smaller boat / motorcycl…

You've described the reality of upper middle class pickup ownership.

As you go down the economic ladder people become more willing to shoehorn vehicles into uses that would make wealthier people hem and haw.

Re: GM Is Now Detroit’s Smallest Auto-Making Employer

#80

Post by ido »

TorKlingberg wrote: post #68
AmVess wrote: post #8

They are pushing production and engineering to anywhere not the USA, so this trend of having fewer workers isn't going to stop until all that's left of GM is the headquarters. I'm not Chicken-Littling either. This trend has been many decades in the making, and it only has one logical endpoint. I was looking at their trucks, and left the showroom when I saw one that had 45% domestic content. I bought a truck that had…

Do people in other countries care about the percentage domestic content in this way?

Not cars in particular but the Swiss and Austrians are obsessed with "Made In Switzerland/Austria" respectively. Especially for foodstuff (cheese, meat, etc).

I see this a lot less in Germany, maybe because nationalism in general is seen as somewhat in bad-taste here.

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