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Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets

nytimes.com

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Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets

#71

Post by convolvatron »

kragen wrote: post #60
tw04 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Remember that "theft of trade secrets" is how Silicon Valley was built. Fairchild was "theft of trade secrets" from Shockley; Intel was "theft of trade secrets" from Fairchild. When Camenzind left Signetics and designed the 555 (under contract to Signetics), he was "using trade secrets" of Signetics Do you have proof of this? Claiming all those companies were founded by people who stole confidential documentation fr…

They were the key engineers of those companies, which were (in the first two cases) the only ones in the industry at the time; their heads contained nothing but (what today we would call) "trade secrets".

certainly. but the logical conclusion redefines 'severance' to mean leaving my head at the door on the way out.

trying to clearly define what exactly are ideas owned by the employer has to fail on principle. especially when you consider that even a new grad is being hired with the expectation that they are bringing ideas and techniques to bear that they developed someplace else.

Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets

#72

Post by tdb7893 »

oneepic wrote: post #68

Can someone explain the difference between this situation and the following situation: - engineer at Company A has expertise in a certain field, and is really, really good at solving problems in this field and knowing what to do next at any point in time. They bring quality to Company A's systems. - engineer moves to Company B to do the same kind of work, and uses their expertise to bring Company B's systems up to hi…

He was caught with actual documents and designs. He took more than just his expertise from his previous employer.

Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets

#73

Post by throwaway_law »

inlined wrote: post #35
throwaway_law wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>never liked when rules got in the way of progress. Yes, that seems to be the Silicon Valley Culture. "Move fast and break things" "Its better to apologize and seek forgiveness, than ask for permission" "Though the most successful founders are usually good people, they tend to have a piratical gleam in their eye. They're not Goody Two-Shoes type good. Morally, they care about getting the big questions right, but not…

I used to go back to my university and speak at the ethics class in my recruiting trips. I stopped after people’s questions changed to “Uber, Airbnb, etc all succeeded because they broke the law. Why are ethics important?” and I had no real answer.

>I stopped after people’s questions changed to “Uber, Airbnb, etc all succeeded because they broke the law. Why are ethics important?” and I had no real answer.

You should go back to it, as those are examples of why ethics are needed more than ever.

As someone in the "trenches" and who sees the damage done by them everyday, I'd suggest you can point to the trail of damage they left in their wake and the real lives that have been negatively effected.

In the case of Uber I would simply start with highlighting the number of drivers who now have criminal records as a result of doing nothing more than driving for Uber. How Uber as a matter of policy would fire drivers who were charged criminally for illegally operating rides for hire for Uber. Perhaps most shockingly for these students perhaps informing them of the reality they are far more likely to become an Uber driver than the founder of the next Uber.

Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets

#74

Post by [deleted] »

oneepic wrote: post #68

Can someone explain the difference between this situation and the following situation: - engineer at Company A has expertise in a certain field, and is really, really good at solving problems in this field and knowing what to do next at any point in time. They bring quality to Company A's systems. - engineer moves to Company B to do the same kind of work, and uses their expertise to bring Company B's systems up to hi…

[deleted]

Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets

#75

Post by compiler-guy »

keithyjohnson wrote: post #48
leoh wrote: post #5

For more background, this New Yorker essay is useful. https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/10/22/did-uber-steal...

Great article, I liked that it illuminates the question--whats a trade secret vs knowledge from on-the-job-experience? And where's the line across which a company can say you've used a trade secret? It's scary to think that one of the outcomes of this case could be a precedent that allows companies to go after what's in your head.

It's unlikely that this will be a precedent for companies "going after what is in your head."

The accusation is that Levandowski downloaded numerous proprietary files and plans, which is very far from personal knowledge.

Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets

#76

Post by kragen »

convolvatron wrote: post #71
kragen wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were the key engineers of those companies, which were (in the first two cases) the only ones in the industry at the time; their heads contained nothing but (what today we would call) "trade secrets".

certainly. but the logical conclusion redefines 'severance' to mean leaving my head at the door on the way out. trying to clearly define what exactly are ideas owned by the employer has to fail on principle. especially when you consider that even a new grad is being hired with the expectation that they are bringing ideas and techniques to bear that they developed someplace else.

> but the logical conclusion redefines 'severance' to mean leaving my head at the door on the way out.

Or just leaving the industry, or lifetime employment with a single company — hardly unthinkable; in fact, it was the rule in the US within living memory, and I've worked at companies where the majority of engineers were lifers. This would be a very favorable outcome for investors in your company: they get the fruits of your million-dollar ideas for the rest of your life, and they only have to pay you a somewhat-below-market salary, since you have no negotiating power to demand a higher one. It's not such a favorable outcome for engineers, or for hacking as a vocation or programming as a profession.

Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets

#77

Post by cwkoss »

paul7986 wrote: post #52
bksenior wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hah! Jobs and Musk are walking shortcuts. Anthony's biggest mistake is that he got caught by a corporation motivated to pursue.

A corporation (Google) who steals IP themselves. They steal from big fish to the little dreamers they inspired and such is well documented. See this popular HN thread... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18566929 I use to feel bad for Google and wanted this thief to face justice. But umm he's just doing what he witnessed and was taught(told) to do while working for the big G.

Also, Youtube facilitates IP trolls stealing revenue from creators on a massive scale.

Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets

#78

Post by Traster »

oneepic wrote: post #68

Can someone explain the difference between this situation and the following situation: - engineer at Company A has expertise in a certain field, and is really, really good at solving problems in this field and knowing what to do next at any point in time. They bring quality to Company A's systems. - engineer moves to Company B to do the same kind of work, and uses their expertise to bring Company B's systems up to hi…

In this case the engineer literally downloaded proprietary files and took them with. You're welcome to take your intelligence and experience with you, you're not welcome to take the work product that the company you're leaving was literally paying hundreds of millions for.

Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets

#79

Post by dilyevsky »

cletus wrote: post #53

The level of greed, hubris and stupidity of some people never ceases to amaze me. Levandowski was paid a bonus of $120 million while at Google, which is more money than any reasonable person will need for several lifetimes. This was actually a running joke at Google (while I was still there) to describe $120M as "1 Levadownski". Like Sundar one year was described as earning "only 1.7 Levadownskis" (he got paid $200M…

Check out other reports - he clearly was enabled by lary for a long time by letting him get away with anything (self-dealing, employee abuse, borderline illegal stuff, etc). Not surprising he felt invincible after this. Just like with social clusterfuck Lary bears at least part of the blame here.
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