When Smart People are Bad Employees • Hacker News Board

Re: When Smart People are Bad Employees

#71

Post by imgabe » Tue, Jan 04, 2011, 3:48 PM UTC

grammaton wrote: post #67

ph0rque wrote: post #55

On his third day, we gave him a project that was scheduled to take one month. Roger completed the project in 3 days with nearly flawless quality. More specifically, he completed the project in 72 hours. 72 non-stop hours: No stops, no sleep, no nothing but coding. I know this is against the Silicon Valley philosophy, but that guy just put in almost two 40-hour weeks of work, not three days. It might have done him wel…

"Roger completed the project in 3 days with nearly flawless quality. More specifically, he completed the project in 72 hours. 72 non-stop hours: No stops, no sleep, no nothing but coding." Then later on: "He was addicted to cocaine." So...no comment from anyone on how these two things are almost certainly related?

Also he was bipolar, so probably in a manic state when he worked for 72 hours straight. There's a pretty big difference between "flaky" and "has a serious mental disorder that is going untreated".

Re: When Smart People are Bad Employees

#72

Post by imgabe » Tue, Jan 04, 2011, 3:49 PM UTC

roel_v wrote: post #37

mkelly wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about rap music do you have an objection to? (I ask, very specifically, because you said "rap lyrics" and not, e.g., "music with immature lyrics".)

Seriously? You're turning this into a juvenile 'my music is better than yours' argument? This is no reason to assume the OP has a specific beef with rap, just that it doesn't belong in a business article, which is true. Reading comprehension also means deriving assumptions from the context and looking for interpretations of what is said that fit within that context.

What is it about rap music that makes it unsuitable for a business article? How many other areas of society do you wall off as inappropriate to learn from when it comes to business?

Re: When Smart People are Bad Employees

#73

Post by JabavuAdams » Tue, Jan 04, 2011, 3:52 PM UTC

keeptrying wrote: post #9

All said and done you need your "bad" employee more than they need you. Brilliance usually comes at a cost. If you were really a good leader you would have been able to get Rodger some help with his drug problem. And if it had worked he would have repayed you with some amazing work. Stop fucking complaining about "bad" employees who make you more money than everyone else on the team. Your job IS to deal with them - s…

Regarding helping people: yes, an enlightened workplace would try to help an employee, but it's far from certain (understaing) that it will work.

> And if it had worked he would have repayed you with some amazing work.

This is wishful thinking. If it hadn't worked, it probably wouldn't be clear right away. Instead it would seem like maybe it was working, and you'd spend months to years in a hopeful and guilty cycle trying to help someone who didn't really want to be helped, or worse yet, wanted to be helped, but still couldn't overcome his addiction.

> Your job IS to deal with them - so deal with it.

Firing someone is one way to deal with them.

> Else be happy with the 9-to-5 lifers on you team and shut the fuck up. You'll find that you aren't going to be able todo jack shit with them.

Self-righteous feel-good bullshit. Organizations need all kinds of people. I have great sympathy for types (1) and (2), but there are many cases where they are clearly self-destructive and toxic to others.

Re: When Smart People are Bad Employees

#74

Post by JabavuAdams » Tue, Jan 04, 2011, 3:56 PM UTC

_delirium wrote: post #34

michaels0620 wrote: post #13

I've been in the company of really smart (and likable!) Heretics and they tend to go out not with a bang but with a whimper. It's sad to watch. They may be even be right but their persistent negativity and challenging of the status quo (even in minor matters) ends up wearing people down. Then eyes start rolling when they talk and their rants are met with sighs rather than attention or acknowledgment. Then they start…

Maybe I hang out with too many cynical people, but the Heretics I've run into have usually been pretty popular with coworkers, at least if the Heretic is also a reasonably intelligent and sociable person (rather than the muttering-darkly-in-the-corner variety). Even a decent number of people who don't themselves have much interest attacking their boss / stupid corporate policies / etc., sometimes like to watch on the…

> Maybe I hang out with too many cynical people, but the Heretics I've run into have usually been pretty popular with coworkers, at least if the Heretic is also a reasonably intelligent and sociable person (rather than the muttering-darkly-in-the-corner variety).

Sadly for the Heretic, that won't help them when the boss fires them. It makes for nice post-"layoff" lunches, though.

Re: When Smart People are Bad Employees

#75

Post by 10smom » Tue, Jan 04, 2011, 4:00 PM UTC

edw519 wrote: post #54

Reading the section entitled, "The Jerk," got me to wondering if OP will be ever write the obvious follow-up post, "Why We Promote So Many Jerks". I have done work for over 100 companies ranging from SMB to large enterprises. Independently (I'll tell you why in a moment) I just made a list of the 10 biggest assholes I ever met the other day. Eight of them were the #1 person in one of those companies. Seven of them ar…

What is worse is those bosses who do not know anything about what is going on in their companies, are getting bonuses off the performances of the workers doing task that they their bosses has no clue they are doing for them. Seems backwards

Re: When Smart People are Bad Employees

#76

Post by JabavuAdams » Tue, Jan 04, 2011, 4:00 PM UTC

wheaties wrote: post #5

I've tried very hard not to be one of those people on that list. For a while I was the first, feeling completely helpless to change anything. Then someone within the company helped change some of that for me. Now I've matured to the point where I can objectively look at this company and realize it's a mismatch between my professional goals and the role that they would have me play. Quite simply it's not a software co…

Maybe this'll help.

Look how dysfunctional people can be, and how hard it is for an individual to change his behaviour.

Now, why are we surprised that it's hard to change a group's behaviour?

I.e. if you're frustrated with the slow pace of change at work, try to inventory some of your own pathologies and see how long they've gone un-fixed.

Note: this is not a shut-up-until-you-make-yourself-perfect message. It's more like "holy shit, I've been saying I'll lose 10 pounds for like 10 years now". Organizations are like that, but worse.

Re: When Smart People are Bad Employees

#77

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Jan 04, 2011, 4:00 PM UTC

edw519 wrote: post #54

Reading the section entitled, "The Jerk," got me to wondering if OP will be ever write the obvious follow-up post, "Why We Promote So Many Jerks". I have done work for over 100 companies ranging from SMB to large enterprises. Independently (I'll tell you why in a moment) I just made a list of the 10 biggest assholes I ever met the other day. Eight of them were the #1 person in one of those companies. Seven of them ar…

[deleted]

Re: When Smart People are Bad Employees

#78

Post by phaedrus » Tue, Jan 04, 2011, 4:03 PM UTC

j_baker wrote: post #17

alex_c wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obliquely appropriate username? :) Just curious, is your boss aware of your cycles, and does he/she plan for them? If not, what effect do you think trying to explain would have?

I don't know about bipolar disorder or the grandparent's boss specifically, but I've learned never to discuss mental disorders with bosses or coworkers. There simply is no upside and every imaginable downside. Best case: you get labeled as someone who uses a mental disorder as an excuse for not doing your job. Worst case: you become "that crazy person" that nobody wants to associate with.

This.

(PS sorry I accidently downvoted when I was trying to click up vote. Hard to hit the right arrow on Android phone.)

Re: When Smart People are Bad Employees

#79

Post by JabavuAdams » Tue, Jan 04, 2011, 4:05 PM UTC

known wrote: post #59

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man." --George Bernard Shaw

Meh. A lot of evil fuckups also depend on unreasonable men.

Re: When Smart People are Bad Employees

#80

Post by philwelch » Tue, Jan 04, 2011, 4:18 PM UTC

kenjackson wrote: post #19

keeptrying wrote: post #9

All said and done you need your "bad" employee more than they need you. Brilliance usually comes at a cost. If you were really a good leader you would have been able to get Rodger some help with his drug problem. And if it had worked he would have repayed you with some amazing work. Stop fucking complaining about "bad" employees who make you more money than everyone else on the team. Your job IS to deal with them - s…

Your job IS to deal with them Your job isn't to deal with them, its to extract from them. Once you can no longer extract value beyond their cost, "poof, be gone". Once T.O. isn't a great player, who's gonna put up with him? No one. With that said, when you look at most of the greats, think Gretsky, Jordan, Tiger, Magic, Bird, etc... they are the model player. The only major exception I can think of is Bonds, and with…

Once T.O. isn't a great player, who's gonna put up with him? No one.

Clear example of this: Brett Favre. Skipping training camp by pretending to retire each year was fine if he could still put in a good season of football. Having failed to do that this year, he has nowhere to go but out.