When Smart People are Bad Employees • Hacker News Board

Re: When Smart People are Bad Employees

#51

Post by BigZaphod » Tue, Jan 04, 2011, 1:38 PM UTC

kenjackson wrote: post #23

BigZaphod wrote: post #20

This is probably OT and maybe even rude... but that lead-in with the Kanye lyrics is just strange. My reading of the lyrics snippet (and I'm certainly no expert in these things) suggests that the character is telling a girl to run away from him because he knows he's a dick. Specifically, he's a dick that's especially good at criticism and spreading negativity and of the list of targets, one group happens to be people…

In the lyrics, the hard-worker is the person singing the lyrics. He's saying he's a jerk for not taking time off to spend time with the girl. So really he is the smart jerk who is trying to tell someone to stay away because he is a jerk and will just criticize her, although he really doesn't like who he becomes, but that's his gift. He ends it with toasts to himself (and people like him). While he's toasting them, he…

"In the lyrics, the hard-worker is the person singing the lyrics."

I just don't get that at all from the snippet quoted, but I can imagine how the larger context of the song might flip the meaning of things around - but I don't know the rest of the song and was going only based on the words in the article with no way of knowing how those words were performed. :)

I suppose the use of "toast" could be a clue that he actually means some kind of respect, but then why respect "douchebags" and "assholes" etc? So my reading put large quotes around "toast" in the way you might "toast" someone sarcastically who just made a giant mistake or something.

If the greater context of the song established that the voice was being sort of facetious here, then I can see how my interpretation could be almost exactly backward - but again, without some grander context, I really feel I had no way to know that if that is indeed the case.

Side note: Over the years I've noticed that either, A) I just suck at interpreting song lyrics, or B) song lyrics are often purposely designed to be ambiguous. I suspect some of both is at work here. :)

Re: When Smart People are Bad Employees

#52

Post by hellweaver666 » Tue, Jan 04, 2011, 1:42 PM UTC

motters wrote: post #42

There is also the vaultingly ambitious employee. Someone who is both clever and also prepared to do anything to get a promotion or pay rise - even if that means causing chaos, using other employees as collateral damage, etc.

Eugh - I hate people like that. In my last job, the whole marketing team (8 people) were like a group of wrecking balls smashing through the company trying to meet their own individual goals. It was chaos but the MD was a marketing guy himself and couldn't see that the marketing team were doing a whole heap of damage to the company.

I played the heretic role for a while, but eventually I quit because it was a loosing battle and my moral had gone through the floor.

Re: When Smart People are Bad Employees

#53

Post by damncabbage » Tue, Jan 04, 2011, 2:03 PM UTC

wheaties wrote: post #5

I've tried very hard not to be one of those people on that list. For a while I was the first, feeling completely helpless to change anything. Then someone within the company helped change some of that for me. Now I've matured to the point where I can objectively look at this company and realize it's a mismatch between my professional goals and the role that they would have me play. Quite simply it's not a software co…

I'm in a similar sort of position, but I'm a developer working at a software company:

My goal is to automate deployments, boost efficiency and introduce "force multipliers" to get the highest bang-for-buck ratio: basically getting rid of the roadblocks between the guys and them churning out awesome stuff at a terrific speed.

On the other hand, the company loses money (in the short term) when I automate things; if two-hour deployments are reduced to 15 minutes each, they can no longer charge the client that extra hour or two for every batch of work. Projects are generally quoted and charged by the hour; if the client's reasonably content with the cost and the resulting work then there's not much incentive to get things done more quickly, regardless of how wasteful we're being.

Sometimes I can clear roadblocks. Most of the time I can't. It's taken a year, but I've come to realise the company's and my own goals are orthogonal, that I'm becoming an Example #1, and that it's time to move on.

(Thanks for posting the article; it's nice to see these negative qualities clearly laid out.)

Re: When Smart People are Bad Employees

#54

Post by edw519 » Tue, Jan 04, 2011, 2:06 PM UTC

Reading the section entitled, "The Jerk," got me to wondering if OP will be ever write the obvious follow-up post, "Why We Promote So Many Jerks".

I have done work for over 100 companies ranging from SMB to large enterprises. Independently (I'll tell you why in a moment) I just made a list of the 10 biggest assholes I ever met the other day. Eight of them were the #1 person in one of those companies. Seven of them are, not surprisingly, out of business.

(The reason I made the list was because I watched "Undercover Boss" for the fourth time the other night. The first three times were great. This episode, about the CEO of Norwegian Cruise Lines, was horrible. All I kept asking myself was, "Where the hell did they get this jerk?" He had no idea how anything happened in his company and had people and functional problems in all 4 departments he worked in undercover. One employee even remarked that he had a problem dealing with women. That's when I made my list.)

What is it about our processes in business that seems to favor assholes? I realize that my experience may not be the norm, but some of the things I've seen done by the President or CEO:

  - getting drunk and firing the security guard
  - throwing a phone book at his secretary
  - belittling vendors until none wanted the business
  - routinely yelling f words at employees
  - firing other executives on a whim
  - begging these executives to return to work
  - committing crimes with the books to earn a bonus
  - ignoring company saving advice (that would make them look bad)
  - sexually harassing subordinates
  - committing adultery (& other crimes) in full view of subordinates

I even witnessed a CEO of a Fortune 50 company break down and cry at a Tony Robbins event because he couldn't complete a routine task.

If I sound like I think that our leaders should be held to a higher standard, it's because they should be. Hell, I'd settle for any standard.

I'd love to hear OP's take on the other side of the story, when smart people decide to stop making sacrifices for the assholes they got stuck working for.

Re: When Smart People are Bad Employees

#55

Post by ph0rque » Tue, Jan 04, 2011, 2:13 PM UTC

On his third day, we gave him a project that was scheduled to take one month. Roger completed the project in 3 days with nearly flawless quality. More specifically, he completed the project in 72 hours. 72 non-stop hours: No stops, no sleep, no nothing but coding.

I know this is against the Silicon Valley philosophy, but that guy just put in almost two 40-hour weeks of work, not three days. It might have done him well to take the next 11 days off.

Edit: I realize he was on drugs, but I think that's a different discussion altogether.

Re: When Smart People are Bad Employees

#56

Post by palish » Tue, Jan 04, 2011, 2:22 PM UTC

wheaties wrote: post #5

I've tried very hard not to be one of those people on that list. For a while I was the first, feeling completely helpless to change anything. Then someone within the company helped change some of that for me. Now I've matured to the point where I can objectively look at this company and realize it's a mismatch between my professional goals and the role that they would have me play. Quite simply it's not a software co…

That's me currently.

Re: When Smart People are Bad Employees

#57

Post by jimfl » Tue, Jan 04, 2011, 2:31 PM UTC

"The two just raised $650 million and what they have to say is worth your attention."

Then, there's that kind of jerk.

Re: When Smart People are Bad Employees

#58

Post by pbhjpbhj » Tue, Jan 04, 2011, 2:32 PM UTC

DuncanIdaho wrote: post #49

j_baker wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about bipolar disorder or the grandparent's boss specifically, but I've learned never to discuss mental disorders with bosses or coworkers. There simply is no upside and every imaginable downside. Best case: you get labeled as someone who uses a mental disorder as an excuse for not doing your job. Worst case: you become "that crazy person" that nobody wants to associate with.

I'm currently supervising an 37year old rookie . He had some absence issues, so I confronted him. Tuns out he is an ex-addict (that's why he's rookie at 37). I don't have a problem with people trying to straighten themselves out. He doesn't get any preferential treatment from me - because it won't do him any good. As long as he does the expected work of expected quality he is fine with me. Knowing that he is an ex ad…

>He doesn't get any preferential treatment from me [...] [knowing about his past] is valuable to me so I can put our relationship in right context.

I don't understand how knowing about his past should matter if you're not going to behave differently towards him?

That's like asking someone’s sex on an application form - if you're not going to discriminate why do you need to know.

Re: When Smart People are Bad Employees

#59

Post by known » Tue, Jan 04, 2011, 2:50 PM UTC

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man." --George Bernard Shaw

Re: When Smart People are Bad Employees

#60

Post by autarch » Tue, Jan 04, 2011, 2:54 PM UTC

damncabbage wrote: post #53

wheaties wrote: post #5

I've tried very hard not to be one of those people on that list. For a while I was the first, feeling completely helpless to change anything. Then someone within the company helped change some of that for me. Now I've matured to the point where I can objectively look at this company and realize it's a mismatch between my professional goals and the role that they would have me play. Quite simply it's not a software co…

I'm in a similar sort of position, but I'm a developer working at a software company: My goal is to automate deployments, boost efficiency and introduce "force multipliers" to get the highest bang-for-buck ratio: basically getting rid of the roadblocks between the guys and them churning out awesome stuff at a terrific speed. On the other hand, the company loses money (in the short term) when I automate things; if two…

Your goals and the company's are not orthogonal, they are in opposition. Orthogonal means unrelated, but in this case they are related, just not in the right way.