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Launch HN: Wren (YC S19) – Offset Your Carbon Footprint

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Re: Launch HN: Wren (YC S19) – Offset Your Carbon Footprint

#71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But there's probably no business there. Because God forbid we try and preserve the vast majority of life on earth instead of pursuing generating millions of dollars of profit every month. The vast majority of human beings haven't put 1 minute of thought into global warming, in fact it wouldn't surprise me if there were billions of human beings walking around today that have never even heard of global warming or clim…

I understand your reservations about this being done by a for-profit. I don't understand your opposition to the idea of individuals contributing to carbon offset projects. It seems like the reservations you've expressed (it's not a whole solution, it's not feasible for people earning less than $2 per day, it might have too much of a "feel good" effect, etc) are equally true of many ideas you'd probably like, includin…

> don't understand your opposition to the idea of individuals contributing to carbon offset projects.

My opposition is that for every 1$ you give Wren, they pocket 20 cents and then hand 80 cents off to another organization (of their choosing) with, as far as I can tell from their site, zero information on how your money is being applied, who exactly they are giving it to, if that organization is for or non-profit and how much they are spending on overhead before actually doing something with the money, etc. Right now there are vague mentions of stopping illegal logging, and that's it. Doesn't say what company, what organizations, what countries, how or who.

What they do document well, is their roadmap... how they want to spend your money internally, not directly to some sort of carbon sequestration efforts.

They want to:

- make it easy to unsubscribe from wren

- increase site performance internationally

- add sharing features

- add how to change your subscription to their FAQ

- handle declined card errors

Great, but what are you doing with the other 80% of the money someone gives you?

Re: Launch HN: Wren (YC S19) – Offset Your Carbon Footprint

#72

Some notes on the calculator: - Asking only for the size of my home but nothing else seems bogus. Surely apartments in a densely populated city have different footprints than single-family homes in suburbia or the countryside? Part of my housing's footprint will be modeled by transport considerations and heating costs, but apparently not all, otherwise you wouldn't ask. - District heating ( https://en.wikipedia.org/w…

Mimi from Wren here:

1. You can change info about your transportation habits + electricity usage in the footprint breakdown below the first six questions. Those top level questions have the largest impact on the delta between your country's avg and your footprint, but you can go more in depth below to account for diff between if you live in an urban, suburb, or rural area.

Does that answer your q? I'm not sure if you are asking for more specificity on your footprint overall or just the housing section.

2. Good point. We're improving the electricity section of our calculator to account for renewables and other specific energy setups. Will keep you posted when that's up.

3. (Yay indeed!) All of the initial values pre-populated in the accordion below the first six questions are actually averages from your country. It might not be clear right now since the values appear somewhat random and also disappear as soon as you enter in your own information, but we can have those values persist and show specific deltas between you and your country / world for each question if that's helpful.

4. We're setting up those links so it's easier to get back to your information in the calculator! Also, we have the cost to offset your footprint appear a page later once you choose your project. Wasn't sure if you hadn't made it to that step or just want that information in the footprint overview link as well.

Hope that's helpful, thanks for the feedback.

Re: Launch HN: Wren (YC S19) – Offset Your Carbon Footprint

#73

Not sure how you will provide updates but I think satellite imagery over time would be really neat for reforested areas.

Satellite imagery is definitely very powerful, and we're including it in updates for the rainforest protection projects. We'll look into providing that when we have reforestation projects :)

Here's a tweet from a user with a satellite image update from the Tech-enabled rainforest protection project we're working with: https://twitter.com/crabbyafrica/status/1144332819969105920

Re: Launch HN: Wren (YC S19) – Offset Your Carbon Footprint

#74

I'd love to see a further breakdown in options. Like as someone who mostly bikes but does use a car a during the summer months there's a clear scale. I'm also a meat eater but have very little red meat. This would half the food emissions of an average American. Some sort of scale would make me feel like I'm getting a more accurate answer to nuanced questions (ones that I think a lot of people concern themselves with)…

Have you tried editing your footprint further in the accordion below the first six questions? There are options there to edit your diet, transportation, electricity etc. at a much more granular level (i.e. I eat meat twice a week). The first six questions have the greatest deltas between you and your country's avg, which is why they're first, but I see how the setup makes it confusing that you can go more in depth underneath. Let me know if you were able to get that to work!

> switching to electric car gave me another 10%. IIRC that's making some big assumptions (not considering electricity costs, lifetime emissions, state electric emissions).

Are you talking about not considering electricity costs for manufacturing an electric vehicle or more generally for your personal footprint?

Might be helpful to note that our previous calculator set up was much more state specific (to postal code level) but we had to switch up the setup so it could accommodate for international users. Our breakdown is still based on the Berkeley Cool Climate model (https://coolclimate.berkeley.edu/publications) but scaled by a country's per capita emissions (data from World Bank). Unfortunately that means there's less granularity on region specific data for the U.S. for now, but it should still be a pretty good estimate. That said — there's still plenty of improvements that we can make to the calculator, so thank you for the feedback.

Oh, I like the idea of competition on a country basis. Maybe showing your percentile in your country could work. Let me know if you have any other ideas here!

For the fake emails, from a product perspective it was more confusing for people to enter in their emails after calculating their footprint than right upfront. It might have been the way we had it set up or something but we can come back to explore what can be improved there. For now if folks want to calculate and leave without a way to get back to their footprint calculations or offset their footprint, it's fine to leave a fake email. If users make it to the create account page, they're able to confirm their email or change their fake email there. :)

Ideally we're going to make the calculator completely open to use, but for now it's still in our onboarding flow until we get around to spinning it out into a separate tool.

Re: Launch HN: Wren (YC S19) – Offset Your Carbon Footprint

#75

Not sure how you will provide updates but I think satellite imagery over time would be really neat for reforested areas.

Great idea. This is what Pachama uses to base their analysis on. https://www.pachama.com - They did YC winter 2019.

Re: Launch HN: Wren (YC S19) – Offset Your Carbon Footprint

#76
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi Justin! Ben here, co-founder of Wren. COTAP is a great organization, and the non-profit filings are a good, fundamental way to verify that they exist and are doing what they say. In response to why Wren, our philosophy is that most individuals—perhaps most of you on HN excluded—don't spend the time to figure how to contribute to stopping climate change, let alone carbon reduction projects, and certainly don't spen…

This is a really good point. The goal of both Wren and COTAP is to have the most impact solving climate change. Having the most impact doesn't have to mean you charge the lowest fee - but it does mean removing the most amount of CO2. If charging a higher fee gives Wren a change to reach millions and get them to pay more where COTAP is still tiny and have one-time donations that is a strong argument for why a differen…

COTAP here... Thanks to thisjustinm for getting us into the conversation : )

Not to rain on the parade here, just a cautionary tale that is intended to be helpful...

I would say take a look at Cool Effect which launched in early 2016. Charity at a glance, but it's also a bottomless-pocketed family from Marin. It cuts itself checks from the Overlook Intl Foundation, run by the same people. Both orgs have same CEO. All fine...

But look at the 990s... They have thrown the kitchen sink at this and have probably dumped $10+ million by now. $800K+ in PR and marketing before they even launched.

Yet they've only sold well under 1 million tonnes over 3 years. In other words, back of the envelope they've lost $9 per tonne, even when being a charitable donation.

Also, divide their 838,715 cumulative tonnes noted on their home page by their 533,115 cumulative members. 1.57 tonnes/member over 3 years, or a half tonne per member per year. Not anywhere close to the average US footprint.

Half the country doesn't believe in climate change, or it's not a priority, or is living paycheck to paycheck, or all of the above. Offsetting is not anywhere on the horizon of their hierarchy of needs. Offsetting is complex, misunderstood, and controversial (see our op-ed's n TheHill.com for a taste).

When you finally get beyond those nesting subsets, there's enough market size to go around in theory but it's extremely competitive.

Re: Launch HN: Wren (YC S19) – Offset Your Carbon Footprint

#77
post #58

Have you consulted any experts in this area to see if offsetting carbon footprint is an effective way? Perhaps that will provide more credibility to potential customers.

Yes, we've spoken to many (i.e. UC Berkeley's Cool Climate, Nori, and Pachama) who have deepened our understanding of the space and inspired us to keep building. As it turns out, the best solution to climate change is divesting from fossil fuels entirely, but we will need a whole host of solutions that includes carbon sequestration and carbon removal — projects and technologies that individuals can fund. If you have anyone you think we should talk to, please send them our way!

Re: Launch HN: Wren (YC S19) – Offset Your Carbon Footprint

#78

Part of me says this is great because we need every single action towards reducing carbon in the atmosphere - big and small - we can get if we want to even get close to where we need to avoid catastrophe. Another part of me wonders why would anyone chose Wren over COTAP[0] (for example) - a non-profit (501c3) where 90.9% of funds go toward their projects, you get a tax deduction and you can check in on their finances…

Hi Justin! Ben here, co-founder of Wren. COTAP is a great organization, and the non-profit filings are a good, fundamental way to verify that they exist and are doing what they say. In response to why Wren, our philosophy is that most individuals—perhaps most of you on HN excluded—don't spend the time to figure how to contribute to stopping climate change, let alone carbon reduction projects, and certainly don't spen…

Personally, I have three issues when thinking about contributing to charities like Wren:

1) Will my money go where they say it'll go? How can I know that? 2) How do I know that I'm actually helping the environment? How do I know the money doesn't end up in some corrupt individual's pocket at the target country? I know first-hand how some people end up profiting handsomely from subsidies with various tricks. 3) Am I actually offsetting X tons of carbon? How does preservation even offset any carbon, since it's preventing more carbon from being released, instead of offsetting what I did release.

Thanks for the effort, it seems like a very worthwhile cause!

Re: Launch HN: Wren (YC S19) – Offset Your Carbon Footprint

#79
post #76
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a really good point. The goal of both Wren and COTAP is to have the most impact solving climate change. Having the most impact doesn't have to mean you charge the lowest fee - but it does mean removing the most amount of CO2. If charging a higher fee gives Wren a change to reach millions and get them to pay more where COTAP is still tiny and have one-time donations that is a strong argument for why a differen…

COTAP here... Thanks to thisjustinm for getting us into the conversation : ) Not to rain on the parade here, just a cautionary tale that is intended to be helpful... I would say take a look at Cool Effect which launched in early 2016. Charity at a glance, but it's also a bottomless-pocketed family from Marin. It cuts itself checks from the Overlook Intl Foundation, run by the same people. Both orgs have same CEO. All…

Sorry, I'm not very familiar with charities, can you clarify what your point is here? I'm not sure what Cool Effect is or what you're talking about.

Re: Launch HN: Wren (YC S19) – Offset Your Carbon Footprint

#80

I'm more interested in setting up consumer/hobbyist level carbon capture processes (if thermodynamically possible). Rough outline from Rod Fitzsimmons: - capture of CO2 from the atmosphere using a variety of techniques, usually adsorbtion ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_capture_and_storage ). This takes quite a bit of energy. - Conversion of the dissolved CO2 into alcohols. Reaction is 2CO2 + 9H2O + 12e- → C2H…

Super cool ideas here. It'd definitely be fun to offer consumer level carbon capture tech, but the main reason we're starting with established project partners is that they have verifiably offset carbon.

Can you elaborate on how this is a better startup idea than funding projects that are fighting climate change at scale? Curious to hear your thoughts.

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