Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

nbcnews.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 251 posts

Re: China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

#71

Post by Causality1 »

jonathankoren wrote: post #38
Causality1 wrote: post #13

We're quite far from the scale tipping in that direction, but it makes me curious about whether the US government has the legal authority to say "educating foreigners is no longer in the national interest, therefore it is no longer a valid reason to remain in the United States" and decimate the foreign student population essentially overnight.

The government can do whatever it wants when it comes to setting immigration laws. It's an enumerated power. F-1 (student) visas are already nonimmigration visas. After you graduate, you have a few months of "optional practical training" (OPT) and then you're expected to go home. Hopefully, you can get an H-1 ( another nonimmigration visa) to stay for at most six years, which is about how long it takes to get a Green…

Indeed. The "big picture" is that regardless of how long it takes, be it twenty or fifty or a hundred years, eventually there won't be a technology gap between China and the United States. If we want the US to have any hope of competing against a country of 1.4 billion people we have to turn the borders into factories for making and integrating new Americans, and the sooner we do it the better. 1.4 billion vs 500 million is a better equation than 1.4 billion vs 327 million.

Re: China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

#72

Post by [deleted] »

Causality1 wrote: post #13

We're quite far from the scale tipping in that direction, but it makes me curious about whether the US government has the legal authority to say "educating foreigners is no longer in the national interest, therefore it is no longer a valid reason to remain in the United States" and decimate the foreign student population essentially overnight.

[deleted]

Re: China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

#73

Post by stupidcar »

baron_harkonnen wrote: post #34
wesleyfsmith wrote: post #9

The most concerning quote: "About 80 percent of Chinese students who get degrees abroad now go back — up from about 33 percent in 2007, according to China’s Ministry of Education. Some 15 percent take jobs in China’s booming tech sector." Attracting top global talent has always been a competitive advance for America, and it's not a good sign for our economy if we can't retain people that we are educating here.

I know plenty of really bright, talented and hardworking Chinese grad students who have a preference to stay in the US but the current visa situation is appalling. RFEs (request for evidence) which were once rare have become standard practice, making the wait to start a new job go up by months, with lots of stressful uncertainty as to whether or not you will be allowed to stay in the US. There's lots of VC money in C…

Except the article doesn't say anything about visas or better salaries back home. Its whole slant is that apparently Chinese graduates are moving away from Silicon Valley because those darn US labor laws mean they can't work nine hours a day, six days a week, for lower wages.

The article is such a pathetically transparent piece of anti-labor rights astro-turfing: China is going to out-compete the US unless US workers can be forced to accept equally shitty working conditions, that I cannot believe Hacker News is taking it seriously.

Re: China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

#74

Post by thorwasdfasdf »

wesleyfsmith wrote: post #9

The most concerning quote: "About 80 percent of Chinese students who get degrees abroad now go back — up from about 33 percent in 2007, according to China’s Ministry of Education. Some 15 percent take jobs in China’s booming tech sector." Attracting top global talent has always been a competitive advance for America, and it's not a good sign for our economy if we can't retain people that we are educating here.

The primary beneficiary of educating foreigners in the US, is the US because of the tuition that those students pay the schools.

The so called "brain drain" is just a ploy to make you think there's a talent shortage. Companies always want cheaper labor. In actuality, US citizens will benefit from more foreigners returning to their home countries because there's more jobs available for US locals.

Re: China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

#75

Post by noteanddata »

wesleyfsmith wrote: post #9

The most concerning quote: "About 80 percent of Chinese students who get degrees abroad now go back — up from about 33 percent in 2007, according to China’s Ministry of Education. Some 15 percent take jobs in China’s booming tech sector." Attracting top global talent has always been a competitive advance for America, and it's not a good sign for our economy if we can't retain people that we are educating here.

I am surprised after reading the comments here:)

the simple fact is that there are more students from China to US over the years because more students can afford the tuitions, while the H1B visa quota remain the same; also there are more and more students from global as well to compete on the H1B quota. so most of the students have to go back simply because there is not enough visa for them to stay.

Re: China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

#76

Post by Nexusone »

asdfman123 wrote: post #41
jhedwards wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was living in China this didn't bother most of the Han Chinese I met. Most of them were so concerned about lifting their families out of poverty and providing for their future that if you said to them "but you can't speak out about human rights abuses" they'd just look at you like "why the hell would I want to do that".

Maybe they don't talk about it because they know they are not allowed to talk about it. I knew a Chinese exchange student who would debate all sorts of things, but when you brought up the Chinese government she would come to a hard stop and say "I don't talk about that." It's probably smart if you're from an authoritarian country.

你说的确实是个问题，中国人和中国人之间讨论没问题，但是如果和一个外国人讨论，那就有问题了。 像你这样的，一开始就认为这个国家是专制的，那我和你讨论只会越来越糟，然后你回到了你的国家，谁知道你又会怎么描述我当时所说的东西呢？

Re: China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

#77

Post by imhoguy »

baron_harkonnen wrote: post #34
wesleyfsmith wrote: post #9

The most concerning quote: "About 80 percent of Chinese students who get degrees abroad now go back — up from about 33 percent in 2007, according to China’s Ministry of Education. Some 15 percent take jobs in China’s booming tech sector." Attracting top global talent has always been a competitive advance for America, and it's not a good sign for our economy if we can't retain people that we are educating here.

I know plenty of really bright, talented and hardworking Chinese grad students who have a preference to stay in the US but the current visa situation is appalling. RFEs (request for evidence) which were once rare have become standard practice, making the wait to start a new job go up by months, with lots of stressful uncertainty as to whether or not you will be allowed to stay in the US. There's lots of VC money in C…

Remote work will take it even further with remote salaries exploding. Being underdog in expensive 1st world country vs living like a king while telecommuting from mother's country - no brainer. And human rights become a minority problem. Harsh but real.

Re: China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

#78

Post by ronnier »

wesleyfsmith wrote: post #9

The most concerning quote: "About 80 percent of Chinese students who get degrees abroad now go back — up from about 33 percent in 2007, according to China’s Ministry of Education. Some 15 percent take jobs in China’s booming tech sector." Attracting top global talent has always been a competitive advance for America, and it's not a good sign for our economy if we can't retain people that we are educating here.

I wonder how much of this has to do with relationships?

If I was Chinese man who came to America for school and was single, I'd move back to China too. Study after study shows that the dating game odds are not good for that particular demographic in the US.

Re: China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

#79

Post by Nexusone »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #54
devy wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> that's an annual average salary of only 17,500 USD per person. That is realistic and in line with fresh out of college Computer Science graduate market rate. I know that because I went to an undergraduate CS degree in China. Developers are working harder in China too. The famous 996 work schedule has been prevalent in Internet software startups in China.[1] Hence the anti-996 movement. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/…

Only from a third tier university. You aren’t going to get a tsignhua, pku, or even beihang grad for that price.

人才也有等级，到哪都一样

Re: China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

#80

Post by Symmetry »

duxup wrote: post #26
pjc50 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can almost certainly unilaterally revoke all the visas. Why the US wants to blow up its own higher education system would be beyond me, though.

Is having someone as a student, and then they leave ... beneficial? I don't have a position on this, I'm just wondering.

Well, it's a US export sector. US professors do work and foreign money flows into the US.
Post reply on HN