Japan resumes commercial whaling after 30 years • Hacker News Board

Re: Japan resumes commercial whaling after 30 years

#71

Post by sithadmin » Mon, Jul 01, 2019, 5:15 PM UTC

uhtred wrote: post #62

sithadmin wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I strongly believe that any wildlife hunting/fishing should be prohibited, no matter if it's recreational or for selling. In some cases, culling of certain wild animal populations is actually beneficial to the ecosystem, e.g. in the case of invasive species, or certain native species whose populations have become unsustainably fast-growing due to external factors (habitat changes; predator or prey population changes…

Humans would meet the criteria for an invasive species.

What point are you trying to make? Let invasive species flourish uncontrolled? Cull the human population?

Re: Japan resumes commercial whaling after 30 years

#72

Post by pathseeker » Mon, Jul 01, 2019, 5:15 PM UTC

sandworm101 wrote: post #66

Grue3 wrote: post #10

Faroe Islands and Norway catch more whales than Japan [1] but for some reason don't receive nearly the same level of outrage. [1] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Whales_Nordic.png

That another country is also evil doesn't make what Japan is doing any better. They both need to stop. There is increasing evidence that whales have a huge role in climate change. Their poop feeds plankton which in turn absorbs carbon. And their physical bodies when they die sink, moving significant amounts of carbon to the bottom where is stays in that ecosystem far away from the atmosphere. If the Japanese and Norw…

> That another country is also evil doesn't make what Japan is doing any better. They both need to stop.

While true, it looks bad for people who are on the fence and/or are ambivalent. If the people expressing the outrage aren't outraged about the whaling in the Faroe islands, it looks like they don't really care about stopping whaling but instead just want to protest for the sake of it (or they're racists against the Japanese, etc).

Re: Japan resumes commercial whaling after 30 years

#73

Post by sandworm101 » Mon, Jul 01, 2019, 5:18 PM UTC

ianbicking wrote: post #34

I had hoped when there was an exposé about whale meat, poisoned with heavy metals, being fed to students that this would discourage the practice in Japan: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-japan-whalemeat/whalemeat... Sadly no. (I also got the impression that people didn't want to eat whale meat, which was why it was being foisted onto kids.) Do the countries that hunt whales test the whale meat systematically?

It is a nostalgia thing tied to "traditional values". Whale meat was served in schools generations ago. Young people don't want it but the elderly still like to enjoy foods from their youth. Old people, seeing the changing culture, want whale meat in schools because they want the kids to be more like the were, like they remember they were when they were kids. It is pure retro nostalgia.

Re: Japan resumes commercial whaling after 30 years

#74

Post by sithadmin » Mon, Jul 01, 2019, 5:18 PM UTC

sandworm101 wrote: post #66

Grue3 wrote: post #10

Faroe Islands and Norway catch more whales than Japan [1] but for some reason don't receive nearly the same level of outrage. [1] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Whales_Nordic.png

That another country is also evil doesn't make what Japan is doing any better. They both need to stop. There is increasing evidence that whales have a huge role in climate change. Their poop feeds plankton which in turn absorbs carbon. And their physical bodies when they die sink, moving significant amounts of carbon to the bottom where is stays in that ecosystem far away from the atmosphere. If the Japanese and Norw…

That other countries exceed Japan in whale killing certainly doesn't absolve Japan of any moral responsibility. But that the other (white, European) nations receive so little public shaming or backlash for their whale killing relative to Japan seems to suggest there is some sort of pervasive bias influencing media coverage.

Re: Japan resumes commercial whaling after 30 years

#75

Post by ufmace » Mon, Jul 01, 2019, 5:21 PM UTC

EL_Loco wrote: post #53

ufmace wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Regarding point 2, I don't know... the whole "I'm not better than anyone else" should be only part of your sentiment. If you think "I'm not better than anybody, including the least educated parcel of the populace, I don't have better ideas, better judgement, better views... well I guess then I sould go run for office", I doubt you'll be much good for the rest of society. You should be humble, and be able to truly che…

I mostly agree actually. That's a quick reaction to something poorly phrased in a way that sounds pretty disturbing. In more detail, it's fine for somebody running for office to say that they believe in some particular set of ideas and explain why they think they're better than opposing ideas, and why people should vote for them and support them. It's much more troublesome for someone already in power to take up a position they did not run on and that people generally oppose, try to implement it anyways, and jam propaganda at those who oppose you.

Or basically, like I said in my first comment in the chain, politicians in a healthy democracy should be responsive to their own citizens first, not to foreign activist groups that don't represent that culture and never had to stand for election among those people.

Re: Japan resumes commercial whaling after 30 years

#76

Post by drak0n1c » Mon, Jul 01, 2019, 5:27 PM UTC

mcguire wrote: post #54

ianbicking wrote: post #34

I had hoped when there was an exposé about whale meat, poisoned with heavy metals, being fed to students that this would discourage the practice in Japan: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-japan-whalemeat/whalemeat... Sadly no. (I also got the impression that people didn't want to eat whale meat, which was why it was being foisted onto kids.) Do the countries that hunt whales test the whale meat systematically?

" "I'm a bit nervous but happy that we can start whaling," one whaler told AFP news agency before setting sail. "I don't think young people know how to cook and eat whale meat any more. I want more people try to taste it at least once." " I don't know that whale meat is economically viable.

Conservation aside, most Japanese don't like it or eat it because it tastes bad, isn't clean, and is increasingly expensive.

My mother growing up in post-war Japan was fed whale meat in school lunches. It used to be eaten as a necessity, a cheap hunter-gatherer protein in the wake of the devastating war. It tasted really bad she says, and she doesn't seek it out, but for reasons of nostalgia and because it's now expensive it seems to have become a delicacy for others.

Re: Japan resumes commercial whaling after 30 years

#77

Post by drak0n1c » Mon, Jul 01, 2019, 5:36 PM UTC

exabrial wrote: post #70

galkk wrote: post #57

I strongly believe that any wildlife hunting/fishing should be prohibited, no matter if it's recreational or for selling. If it isn't grown specifically for farming/hunting/fishing on a farm/elsewhere, then hard no. Wildlife just doesn't has any chance against modern technology.

This is a pretty uneducated world view. Some species population is purely controlled by their food supply, predators, or disease vectors, eg: deer. They're a massive pestilence in many areas because humans have displaced their natural predators, increased their food supply, and have reduced diseases. As a result, it's incredible important to thin their numbers in a cycle that would mimic the course of natural cycles.…

Yes, if humans have adopted an ecologically vital role as an apex predator in certain spaces (like with hunting deer, boar, or fishing certain species), we shouldn't artificially remove ourselves from the ecosystem.

Re: Japan resumes commercial whaling after 30 years

#78

Post by YUMad » Mon, Jul 01, 2019, 5:39 PM UTC

sandworm101 wrote: post #66

Grue3 wrote: post #10

Faroe Islands and Norway catch more whales than Japan [1] but for some reason don't receive nearly the same level of outrage. [1] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Whales_Nordic.png

That another country is also evil doesn't make what Japan is doing any better. They both need to stop. There is increasing evidence that whales have a huge role in climate change. Their poop feeds plankton which in turn absorbs carbon. And their physical bodies when they die sink, moving significant amounts of carbon to the bottom where is stays in that ecosystem far away from the atmosphere. If the Japanese and Norw…

So just kill the whales and let them sink to help the climate then?

Re: Japan resumes commercial whaling after 30 years

#79

Post by cygx » Mon, Jul 01, 2019, 5:42 PM UTC

sithadmin wrote: post #71

uhtred wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Humans would meet the criteria for an invasive species.

What point are you trying to make? Let invasive species flourish uncontrolled? Cull the human population?

The latter, presumably: Culling humanity for its own good is generally considered immoral, while it is deemed acceptable in case of nonhuman animals. That mismatch requires justification.

Re: Japan resumes commercial whaling after 30 years

#80

Post by hombre_fatal » Mon, Jul 01, 2019, 5:47 PM UTC

opwieurposiu wrote: post #23

"A stove boat or a dead whale." ― Herman Melville This should be the bargain. If you are going to hunt whales, the whales should have a chance to hunt you back. Require the use of oar powered wooden whaleboats, hand thrown harpoons, manila ropes. There is no sportsmanship in the way the japanese do it now.

I had a similar thought when reading about hunters gassing hibernating bears out of their caves to kill them from far with a high powered rifle as the bear stumbles out in a stupor.

Should be required to enter the cave with a pocket knife.