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Tokyo's suburban housing became vast ghettoes for the old

theguardian.com

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Re: Tokyo's suburban housing became vast ghettoes for the old

#71

Post by xchaotic »

freewilly1040 wrote: post #59
smallnamespace wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We already have a good solution to avoid ghettoisation or traps called progressive taxation. However, it doesn't go far enough because the tax rate doesn't take benefits into account, so even though you're getting >$0.80 of every dollar earned, after adjusting for benefits it may instead be $0.20 or even negative. The Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC) is an especially large contributor to this situation [1]. To avoid a…

The issue of capital gains getting preferential tax treatment over wage labor is a much bigger problem than any lack of benefits taxes.

Why? It's just artificial money, what's the concrete negative impact? (I probably agree, I just think it needs to be concrete and justified)

Re: Tokyo's suburban housing became vast ghettoes for the old

#73

Post by inferiorhuman »

ghaff wrote: post #53
fooblitzky wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until you legally can't, as the parent comment mentioned.

Yes I read the parent. However, a lot of people are mentally/physically able to drive who have trouble walking around city streets. Personal circumstances differ of course. But cities are certainly not automatically easier for infirm people to get around. And my general point was what I wrote. "Cities are not a panacea." If you don't believe that, get on crutches and travel around pretty much any city.

If you don't believe that, get on crutches and travel around pretty much any city.

Follow that up with: get on crutches and travel around pretty much any suburb.

Re: Tokyo's suburban housing became vast ghettoes for the old

#74

Post by astrange »

freewilly1040 wrote: post #61
astrange wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a lot of differences - Japan actually has great zoning and land use laws, and zoning is nationally controlled, so homeowners can't abuse it to raise their own property prices like in California. That's what the "traffic" complaints are excuses for. As a result, housing in Tokyo is a lot cheaper than you'd expect it to be. Still, the issues with public housing aren't surprising. I'm not sure you can get evicte…

I wonder if the root cause in Tokyo is more their aversion to immigration than any zoning problem

The current government (supposedly right-wing) has reformed immigration to the point it's easier to move there than to the US. Your whole family can work, you can get permanent residency in a few years, it's all good. Of course, having a college degree makes it a lot easier.

It's not very appealing for Americans because the work culture is pretty bad and pay is low, so you can't get out of student debt, but I met a lot of Asian immigrants last time I was there.

Re: Tokyo's suburban housing became vast ghettoes for the old

#75

Post by Noos »

Tiktaalik wrote: post #3

The future of NA suburbs as well. Have fun living in the car dependent sprawling suburbs when you're 80 and not legally allowed to drive anymore. I guess one can hope that autonomous cars will finally appear to bail one out of this predicament, but I'll personally be setting myself up to retire in a place where everything I need is a short walk or wheelchair roll away.

There are senior care services that exist to help seniors with those issues. Also many live with children or in communities. Plus, it's a lot easier to drive to a walmart than it is to walk to the subway and use it, if you are older.

The city is pretty bad for anyone except the young and wealthy.

Re: Tokyo's suburban housing became vast ghettoes for the old

#76

Post by ghaff »

inferiorhuman wrote: post #73
ghaff wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes I read the parent. However, a lot of people are mentally/physically able to drive who have trouble walking around city streets. Personal circumstances differ of course. But cities are certainly not automatically easier for infirm people to get around. And my general point was what I wrote. "Cities are not a panacea." If you don't believe that, get on crutches and travel around pretty much any city.

If you don't believe that, get on crutches and travel around pretty much any city. Follow that up with: get on crutches and travel around pretty much any suburb.

The difference being you can get in your car and drive to near the entrance of a store (or to a neighbor's). I know. I had to do it for a few months.

Re: Tokyo's suburban housing became vast ghettoes for the old

#77

Post by mathattack »

01100011 wrote: post #55
mathattack wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their houses are paid off and they are locked in to low property taxes.

You could sell your bay area house for $1M and buy a palace in AZ for half that. That leaves you with a nice chunk of change to pay property taxes with.

The economics work better for renters that are moving, rather than owners.

For an owner, their property taxes are lower than it would be with a new house out of state. If they want they can borrow against the home value to access the equity. Their income is lower, so less attraction moving to a lower tax state.

Re: Tokyo's suburban housing became vast ghettoes for the old

#78

Post by amyjess »

yellowapple wrote: post #62
amyjess wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My dad lives in a 55+ community in Nevada, and they have golf carts too. There's even a sign when you enter the development warning you that golf carts are permitted on the roads. Unlike a lot of retirement communities, it looks like just another suburban housing development. The only hint that it's different, aside from the golf carts, is that every single house is one-story in order to accommodate people who can't…

Sounds vaguely like the Somersett neighborhood in Reno (though I don't recall if it's entirely 55+; there are some kid-friendly amenities, which suggests that families with kids are allowed to live in at least some parts, but for some reason I remember it being mostly retirees).

Nope, it's Sun City Summerlin in Vegas. But I wouldn't be surprised at all if the formula is common.

As for their age policies, from what I remember of my dad telling me, only one resident of each house has to be 55+, but nobody under 19 is allowed to live there permanently (...and I just checked their Wikipedia article, and it confirms it). So no kid-friendly stuff there, but there are some younger people living with older relatives.

Re: Tokyo's suburban housing became vast ghettoes for the old

#79

Post by ikeyany »

freewilly1040 wrote: post #60
dougmwne wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the simplest explanation is that once people have put down decades worth of roots in a place, most would prefer to stay, no matter how many millions their house would sell for. I think for most people the upheaval of leaving all your friends, acquaintances, family, local culture, habits, patterns of living, and your very home behind far outweighs even a eye-opening property value. You'd need a damn good reaso…

I think you make a great point, but it begs the question: why does changing houses mean giving up your roots?

You would understand if you thought of it as 'leaving your home' instead of 'changing houses'.

Re: Tokyo's suburban housing became vast ghettoes for the old

#80

Post by robocat »

zem wrote: post #50
greglindahl wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While that makes a great headline, how common is it?

enough to have its own wikipedia entry, at the least! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poor_door

Which seems to imply that while a poor door is not very common, it is becoming more common in response to affordable-housing regulations (requiring a % of market-rate developments to be affordable).
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