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Tokyo's suburban housing became vast ghettoes for the old

theguardian.com

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Re: Tokyo's suburban housing became vast ghettoes for the old

#51

Post by spaceflunky »

ilamont wrote: post #9

Several of the examples in the article hinted at familial estrangement, which makes things much worse. I lived in Taiwan, which also has a stagnant birth rate (only 181,606 births last year, https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3611847 ) and a decades-long trend for young people to migrate to the large cities, or go to China to try their fortunes there. But there is also a strong tradition of multi-generational hous…

What's up with all these children hating their parents? Not judging but genuinely curious. Is something in the culture?

A lot of these people who die alone with unclaimed bodies have children. Why don't the children care?

Re: Tokyo's suburban housing became vast ghettoes for the old

#52

Post by astrange »

bilbo0s wrote: post #36
astrange wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cupertino residents are incredibly NIMBY and incredibly dedicated to not letting anyone new move in - traffic, you know. The city council they just elected has many great opinions like "Apple employees are too poor to live in Cupertino" and "Men who work at Apple will molest our daughters and hire prostitutes". Right now Vallco mall has been torn down and the city is trying its best to stop an affordable housing deve…

Part of problem in Japan: > also set strict requirements for younger people who lived there: if your income exceeded a certain threshold, you would be evicted. If you refused, you were charged rent – at potentially up to twice the market rate, depending on your income... Part of problem in US: > Cupertino residents are ... incredibly dedicated to not letting anyone new move in... Sounds like HNUser "npunt" was correc…

There's a lot of differences - Japan actually has great zoning and land use laws, and zoning is nationally controlled, so homeowners can't abuse it to raise their own property prices like in California. That's what the "traffic" complaints are excuses for.

As a result, housing in Tokyo is a lot cheaper than you'd expect it to be. Still, the issues with public housing aren't surprising. I'm not sure you can get evicted from Section 8 apartments in the US for making more money, but it wouldn't surprise me.

Re: Tokyo's suburban housing became vast ghettoes for the old

#53

Post by ghaff »

fooblitzky wrote: post #33
ghaff wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cities are no panacea. Just a couple of months ago I was in Manhattan after a bad muscle sprain. I could walk a few blocks but it was hard. I guess in a dense city it’s easier to just take an Uber everywhere but for some types of restricted mobility it’s actually much easier to be able to drive a car more or less door to door.

Until you legally can't, as the parent comment mentioned.

Yes I read the parent. However, a lot of people are mentally/physically able to drive who have trouble walking around city streets. Personal circumstances differ of course. But cities are certainly not automatically easier for infirm people to get around.

And my general point was what I wrote. "Cities are not a panacea." If you don't believe that, get on crutches and travel around pretty much any city.

Re: Tokyo's suburban housing became vast ghettoes for the old

#54

Post by mathattack »

01100011 wrote: post #25
npunt wrote: post #13

In everything from technology to culture to aging, Japan seems to be a portent for things yet to happen in the west. We tend to view suburbs as these static places that serve a particular purpose for primarily families and where nothing changes. But in fact suburbs are starting to transform into de facto retirement communities as boomers exit the workforce, due in large part to incentives from certain laws that keep…

Your comment made me think of how astonished I was at the numbers of elderly in the South Bay when I relocated here. You'd think those folks would have cashed out and moved to a tax friendly state with better weather, but for some reason they've stayed put.

Their houses are paid off and they are locked in to low property taxes.

Re: Tokyo's suburban housing became vast ghettoes for the old

#55

Post by 01100011 »

mathattack wrote: post #54
01100011 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment made me think of how astonished I was at the numbers of elderly in the South Bay when I relocated here. You'd think those folks would have cashed out and moved to a tax friendly state with better weather, but for some reason they've stayed put.

Their houses are paid off and they are locked in to low property taxes.

You could sell your bay area house for $1M and buy a palace in AZ for half that. That leaves you with a nice chunk of change to pay property taxes with.

Re: Tokyo's suburban housing became vast ghettoes for the old

#56

Post by SomeOldThrow »

Tiktaalik wrote: post #6

Really interesting article. > ... it also set strict requirements for younger people who lived there: if your income exceeded a certain threshold, you would be evicted. If you refused, you were charged rent – at potentially up to twice the market rate, depending on your income. The goal was to make public housing a safety net for elderly, low-income and socially vulnerable people. The effect, however, has been to mak…

That indicates poor zoning to me. If you have mixed market-rate and social housing you should be building them adjacent to each other or (as is often done now) in the same building.

Re: Tokyo's suburban housing became vast ghettoes for the old

#57

Post by linkregister »

wlesieutre wrote: post #7
paulcole wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Have fun living in the car dependent sprawling suburbs when you're 80 and not legally allowed to drive anymore. You're describing Florida and they drive anyways.

You say that like we take away people's drivers licenses if they're not capable of driving safely

Insurance companies take this seriously and withdraw insurance when senior license holders receive minor tickets for moving violations. The same ticket that would not cause a rate increase for a 30-year-old can be the death knell of a senior's insurance.

Re: Tokyo's suburban housing became vast ghettoes for the old

#58

Post by euske »

I tend to think that there's some business opportunity here, especially for tech companies (although they might not be entirely a private sector). I've seen numerous companies who are specialized in surveillance and communication for the elderly. They are not yet widespread due to technical and privacy concerns, but I'd be excited to see more development in this area in future.

Re: Tokyo's suburban housing became vast ghettoes for the old

#59

Post by freewilly1040 »

smallnamespace wrote: post #38
dalbasal wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I increasingly think that for social safety nets to work well, they need to be universalized, if possible. Otherwise we get welfare traps, ghettoisation or just poor quality (like buses in places where only the poor use em). It doesn't mean everyone has to use it, just that they can. This is common sense in services like health or education, where we're used to it.

We already have a good solution to avoid ghettoisation or traps called progressive taxation. However, it doesn't go far enough because the tax rate doesn't take benefits into account, so even though you're getting >$0.80 of every dollar earned, after adjusting for benefits it may instead be $0.20 or even negative. The Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC) is an especially large contributor to this situation [1]. To avoid a…

The issue of capital gains getting preferential tax treatment over wage labor is a much bigger problem than any lack of benefits taxes.

Re: Tokyo's suburban housing became vast ghettoes for the old

#60

Post by freewilly1040 »

dougmwne wrote: post #48
01100011 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment made me think of how astonished I was at the numbers of elderly in the South Bay when I relocated here. You'd think those folks would have cashed out and moved to a tax friendly state with better weather, but for some reason they've stayed put.

I think the simplest explanation is that once people have put down decades worth of roots in a place, most would prefer to stay, no matter how many millions their house would sell for. I think for most people the upheaval of leaving all your friends, acquaintances, family, local culture, habits, patterns of living, and your very home behind far outweighs even a eye-opening property value. You'd need a damn good reaso…

I think you make a great point, but it begs the question: why does changing houses mean giving up your roots?
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