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Openpilot – open-source self-driving agent

github.com

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Re: Openpilot – open-source self-driving agent

#71

Post by czr »

syntaxing wrote: post #63
czr wrote: post #21

For those who haven't seen Openpilot before, or recently: * George Hotz (not "Hortz") is working on other stuff now [0], and is no longer CEO. * While "I'm running open-source self-driving software from GitHub" sounds terrifying, the software is very good at what it does, which is very limited (LKAS / ACC / driver monitoring). Browsing test videos on YouTube ( https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=openpilot+0.…

I knew he stepped down but I didn't know he was starting a new venture already. Is there any indication what the new venture is about? The site doesn't say much unfortunately.

Per the site and his instagram [0], it's an AR thing of some sort. He was playing around with a North Star prototype [1] on stream a few days ago [2]. But it's still very early–if he actually sticks with this project I imagine it will be at least few months before anything substantial is announced.

[0] https://www.instagram.com/p/Bw3GEQNHywS/

[1] https://developer.leapmotion.com/northstar

[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnQBlUvejWc

Re: Openpilot – open-source self-driving agent

#72

Post by aphextron »

taneq wrote: post #60
kyle_martin1 wrote: post #25

I work as a lead autonomous vehicle engineer. Here's a few thoughts: * This isn't really open-source. The most important part, the neural network perception pipeline, is closed sourced. Without the training data and the network architectures, the supporting code is not that useful. * This system is non-deterministic, which is a no-no in critical systems like autonomous vehicle. There's no guarantee that vehicle detec…

I'd love to try it out but I can't bring myself to trust (on any level) something that's essentially a mobile phone running a hacked-together mashup of C and Python. There's no redundancy, no independent components cross-checking each other, nothing as far as I'm aware to try and provide any given level of reliability. (Don't get me wrong, Python is great for research - I wouldn't regard it as highly reliable or good…

>There's no redundancy, no independent components cross-checking each other, nothing as far as I'm aware to try and provide any given level of reliability.

And yet, it works beautifully. The redundancy is you; it's a level 2 system that works the same as cruise control. There have been no accidents with thousands of people using this to drive thousands of miles a day every day. You can continue waiting and hoping for a hypothetical perfect system, or you can have the future right now.

Re: Openpilot – open-source self-driving agent

#73

Post by neilv »

In the first video, the voiceover tells people to buy&install the hardware, and use this software, while showing what appears to be autonomous driving among other vehicles on an active public road. (Not "This is for research only, from the privacy and safety of your own driveway.")

Who thinks this is a good idea? Where in the US is this legal? In a crash, will insurance cover it, and will there be additional civil liability and possible criminal charges?

Re: Openpilot – open-source self-driving agent

#74

Post by mayniac »

aphextron wrote: post #70
mayniac wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I get on the highway, engage the system, and sit back sipping my coffee for the next 45 minutes. Please, do not do this.

>Please, do not do this. I get that people are unable to comprehend the fact that true level 2 autonomy is here and ready to use, but it is. It's perfectly safe to sit back completely disengaged from the controls on OpenPilot, so long as your eyes are on the road (which the software enforces with head tracking). Any sort of situation that could require you to take control is warned in advance.

>Any sort of situation that could require you to take control is warned in advance.

And what about false negatives, where something happens but it doesn't warn you?

The fact that comma.ai pulled out of releasing the comma one when the NHTSA asked them some fairly basic questions is a massive red flag. They can't even guarantee that openpilot will detect low slung trailers or motorcycles [1]. If they want to develop and release autonomous cars of any level they should be going through proper procedures and regulations, not just sticking a "for research purposes only" sticker on everything and distancing themselves from any responsibility.

There are far, far too many unknown unknowns when it comes to autonomous vehicles. If you're already forced to keep your eyes on the road, stop being lazy and do everyone around you a favour: grip the steering wheel, keep your feet on the pedals, and focus on the road.

[1] https://opc.ai/faqs/does-openpilot-see-people-animals-motorc...

Re: Openpilot – open-source self-driving agent

#75

Post by stale2002 »

mwfunk wrote: post #64
stale2002 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is nothing illegal about modifying your own car. People have been doing so since cars were invented. "Amateur" car modifications are already very wide spread.

Sure there is, depending on what you’re doing and where you live. There’s all sorts of things you could do that would make a vehicle no longer street legal and/or a danger to yourself and others. And I would hope people would take the latter very seriously, even if what they’re doing isn’t illegal.

And nothing described here makes a vehicle no longer street legal.

This stuff is well within the realm of perfectly legal car modifications.

Re: Openpilot – open-source self-driving agent

#76

Post by aphextron »

mayniac wrote: post #74
aphextron wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Please, do not do this. I get that people are unable to comprehend the fact that true level 2 autonomy is here and ready to use, but it is. It's perfectly safe to sit back completely disengaged from the controls on OpenPilot, so long as your eyes are on the road (which the software enforces with head tracking). Any sort of situation that could require you to take control is warned in advance.

>Any sort of situation that could require you to take control is warned in advance. And what about false negatives, where something happens but it doesn't warn you? The fact that comma.ai pulled out of releasing the comma one when the NHTSA asked them some fairly basic questions is a massive red flag. They can't even guarantee that openpilot will detect low slung trailers or motorcycles [1]. If they want to develop a…

> If you're already forced to keep your eyes on the road, stop being lazy and do everyone around you a favour: grip the steering wheel, keep your feet on the pedals, and focus on the road.

You do that, and I'll continue enjoying my self driving car.

Re: Openpilot – open-source self-driving agent

#77

Post by mayniac »

aphextron wrote: post #72
taneq wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd love to try it out but I can't bring myself to trust (on any level) something that's essentially a mobile phone running a hacked-together mashup of C and Python. There's no redundancy, no independent components cross-checking each other, nothing as far as I'm aware to try and provide any given level of reliability. (Don't get me wrong, Python is great for research - I wouldn't regard it as highly reliable or good…

>There's no redundancy, no independent components cross-checking each other, nothing as far as I'm aware to try and provide any given level of reliability. And yet, it works beautifully. The redundancy is you ; it's a level 2 system that works the same as cruise control. There have been no accidents with thousands of people using this to drive thousands of miles a day every day. You can continue waiting and hoping fo…

If anyone has been in a crash while they were driving with this, we won't know about it. Adding a third party, unregulated, quasi-legal modification to your car which can take over steering, brakes, and acceleration will instantly invalidate your insurance. Not to mention it being potentially illegal to use this on the road. Nobody is going to say they were in an accident while being driven by an openpilot.

Re: Openpilot – open-source self-driving agent

#78

Post by notaki »

aphextron wrote: post #47

I've been using Openpilot in my 2018 Corolla for the past few months. Some takeaways: It's mind-blowingly good. Easily on par with Autopilot (That is, Autopilot's ACTUAL capabilities, not what they show in marketing promos). For long highway trips, it's easy to go hours without a disengagement. The full setup costs about $800, is completely plug-and-play, and you can order everything you need on the site (EON/Panda/G…

Openpilot is not on par with Autopilot. There's a long list of things Autopilot can do that Openpilot will never be able to do with existing hardware.

Re: Openpilot – open-source self-driving agent

#79

Post by tjpnz »

jazzyjackson wrote: post #59
aphextron wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This is stupid. All the demos are on public roads. George Hortz needs to chill before he ends up in jail. There are literally thousands of community members using this software on a daily basis, driving thousands of miles in real life situations daily. I've been commuting to work with it for 3 months now and it's the most lifechanging piece of tech I've come across since the iPhone. I get on the highway, engage the…

This is extremely reckless

No more reckless than doing the same with Tesla Autopilot.

Re: Openpilot – open-source self-driving agent

#80

Post by aphextron »

notaki wrote: post #78
aphextron wrote: post #47

I've been using Openpilot in my 2018 Corolla for the past few months. Some takeaways: It's mind-blowingly good. Easily on par with Autopilot (That is, Autopilot's ACTUAL capabilities, not what they show in marketing promos). For long highway trips, it's easy to go hours without a disengagement. The full setup costs about $800, is completely plug-and-play, and you can order everything you need on the site (EON/Panda/G…

Openpilot is not on par with Autopilot. There's a long list of things Autopilot can do that Openpilot will never be able to do with existing hardware.

>There's a long list of things Autopilot can do that Openpilot will never be able to do with existing hardware.

Such as what? Autopilot is completely vision/radar based as well. Sure it has a few more cameras for a greater margin of safety, but its' effective capabilities are the exact same. It's still completely reliant on tracking lane lines, the user has to disengage at stop lights, and it can't make 90 degree city street turns. The only real difference I can see is automatic lane switching, which is available in some Openpilot forks.

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