Vodafone Found Hidden Backdoors in Huawei Equipment • Hacker News Board

Re: Vodafone Found Hidden Backdoors in Huawei Equipment

#71

Post by networkimprov » Tue, Apr 30, 2019, 10:09 AM UTC

krn wrote: post #63

0898 wrote: post #18

As Jon Gruber says: "Bloomberg, of course, is the publication that published “The Big Hack” in October — a sensational story alleging that data centers of Apple, Amazon, and dozens of other companies were compromised by China’s intelligence services." "The story presented no confirmable evidence at all, was vehemently denied by all companies involved, has not been confirmed by a single other publication (despite much…

I have explained why Bloomberg's story would have been vehemently denied by all companies involved even if it was completely true: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18655803 Many people in tech, including John Gruber, seem to lack a basic understanding of who makes decisions concerning national security and international politics.

Denials made under oath in court might be worth considering. Public denials are a penny per gross, i.e. meaningless.

Re: Vodafone Found Hidden Backdoors in Huawei Equipment

#72

Post by longhorn_alum » Tue, Apr 30, 2019, 10:10 AM UTC

neximo64 wrote: post #68

0898 wrote: post #18

As Jon Gruber says: "Bloomberg, of course, is the publication that published “The Big Hack” in October — a sensational story alleging that data centers of Apple, Amazon, and dozens of other companies were compromised by China’s intelligence services." "The story presented no confirmable evidence at all, was vehemently denied by all companies involved, has not been confirmed by a single other publication (despite much…

How do you know for sure that the story is false? As you've mentioned Bloomberg hasn't corrected or retracted the story. Governments and companies have in the past denied things that have been true. Do you seriously think Huawei vehemently denying that it has backdoors in its technology makes it true all of a sudden?

> How do you know for sure that the story is false?

That's not how journalism works, at least until fairly recently

Re: Vodafone Found Hidden Backdoors in Huawei Equipment

#73

Post by fxfan » Tue, Apr 30, 2019, 10:24 AM UTC

0898 wrote: post #18

As Jon Gruber says: "Bloomberg, of course, is the publication that published “The Big Hack” in October — a sensational story alleging that data centers of Apple, Amazon, and dozens of other companies were compromised by China’s intelligence services." "The story presented no confirmable evidence at all, was vehemently denied by all companies involved, has not been confirmed by a single other publication (despite much…

If one mistake tarnished reputation forever then after Iraq war none of CNN, Fox, NYT, MSNBC, WaPo should be in business, specially since all of these were accomplices in and not victims of falsehoods.

Re: Vodafone Found Hidden Backdoors in Huawei Equipment

#74

Post by fxfan » Tue, Apr 30, 2019, 10:26 AM UTC

VvR-Ox wrote: post #17

steve19 wrote: post #5

Hard to know from the article, and Bloomberg does not have a good track record, if the 'backdoor' was a vulnerability , an unwanted feature or an actual backdoor. I might imagine a Chinese headline with "US firm Intel backdoors every CPU", which may or may not be true depending on your feelings on Intel ME

Intel ME _is_ a backdoor. The funny thing is that there are many more. Interesting how the EU is dealing with this - most media seems to focus on how badly china could be spying while the US proved they aren't trustworthy long before.

You haven't worked for large companies have you? Intel ME is NOT a backdoor. It may have vulnerabilities, sure. But none explicitly put in there.

It was designed for a specific purpose- troubleshooting enterprise computers. And it does that job amazingly well. No more IT guy guiding me when he can just do all the clicks himself.

Re: Vodafone Found Hidden Backdoors in Huawei Equipment

#75

Post by threeseed » Tue, Apr 30, 2019, 10:38 AM UTC

0898 wrote: post #18

As Jon Gruber says: "Bloomberg, of course, is the publication that published “The Big Hack” in October — a sensational story alleging that data centers of Apple, Amazon, and dozens of other companies were compromised by China’s intelligence services." "The story presented no confirmable evidence at all, was vehemently denied by all companies involved, has not been confirmed by a single other publication (despite much…

Bloomberg publishes what thousands of articles a year. Some percentage of them are guaranteed to be wrong. That doesn't meant that the burden of truth should instantly shift towards them being untrustworthy based on a single article.

Journalism depends on the public trusting them and in the current environment in which that trust is being eroded to have comments like this that dismiss Bloomberg entirely is reckless and pretty disgraceful to be honest.

Re: Vodafone Found Hidden Backdoors in Huawei Equipment

#76

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Apr 30, 2019, 10:38 AM UTC

longhorn_alum wrote: post #72

neximo64 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you know for sure that the story is false? As you've mentioned Bloomberg hasn't corrected or retracted the story. Governments and companies have in the past denied things that have been true. Do you seriously think Huawei vehemently denying that it has backdoors in its technology makes it true all of a sudden?

> How do you know for sure that the story is false? That's not how journalism works, at least until fairly recently

[deleted]

Re: Vodafone Found Hidden Backdoors in Huawei Equipment

#77

Post by threeseed » Tue, Apr 30, 2019, 10:40 AM UTC

logifail wrote: post #33

0898 wrote: post #18

As Jon Gruber says: "Bloomberg, of course, is the publication that published “The Big Hack” in October — a sensational story alleging that data centers of Apple, Amazon, and dozens of other companies were compromised by China’s intelligence services." "The story presented no confirmable evidence at all, was vehemently denied by all companies involved, has not been confirmed by a single other publication (despite much…

> everything they publish should be treated with skepticism until they [..] provide evidence that it was true Call me a cynic, but I'd hope all of us would want to take that approach with every source.

If we all followed your advice the world will be a truly awful place to live.

Given how critical journalism is to the fabric of society I prefer to give them the benefit of the doubt wherever possible.

Re: Vodafone Found Hidden Backdoors in Huawei Equipment

#78

Post by crispyambulance » Tue, Apr 30, 2019, 10:40 AM UTC

neximo64 wrote: post #68

0898 wrote: post #18

As Jon Gruber says: "Bloomberg, of course, is the publication that published “The Big Hack” in October — a sensational story alleging that data centers of Apple, Amazon, and dozens of other companies were compromised by China’s intelligence services." "The story presented no confirmable evidence at all, was vehemently denied by all companies involved, has not been confirmed by a single other publication (despite much…

How do you know for sure that the story is false? As you've mentioned Bloomberg hasn't corrected or retracted the story. Governments and companies have in the past denied things that have been true. Do you seriously think Huawei vehemently denying that it has backdoors in its technology makes it true all of a sudden?

If Bloomberg is going to make serious claims like that they NEED TO BACK IT UP with some evidence.

Not a damn thing came out of the Supermicro story. And now this story about Huawei where it's unclear if they're talking about bugs, vulnerabilities or deliberate back-doors--- three very very different things.

It's not that I trust Huawei either, but if Bloomberg is going to make claims like that they better be fucking true and verifiable.

Re: Vodafone Found Hidden Backdoors in Huawei Equipment

#79

Post by threeseed » Tue, Apr 30, 2019, 10:42 AM UTC

wqwh wrote: post #24

0898 wrote: post #18

As Jon Gruber says: "Bloomberg, of course, is the publication that published “The Big Hack” in October — a sensational story alleging that data centers of Apple, Amazon, and dozens of other companies were compromised by China’s intelligence services." "The story presented no confirmable evidence at all, was vehemently denied by all companies involved, has not been confirmed by a single other publication (despite much…

So like any other media publication? They are all in the business of lying, for profit or otherwise. I assume people at Bloomberg shorted Huawei stock before they published that.

In many countries you are subject to civil and criminal penalties for slandering or libelling someone.

So no. They wouldn't be around if they were in the business of lying.

Re: Vodafone Found Hidden Backdoors in Huawei Equipment

#80

Post by TonyTheSlayer » Tue, Apr 30, 2019, 10:42 AM UTC

fxfan wrote: post #74

VvR-Ox wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intel ME _is_ a backdoor. The funny thing is that there are many more. Interesting how the EU is dealing with this - most media seems to focus on how badly china could be spying while the US proved they aren't trustworthy long before.

You haven't worked for large companies have you? Intel ME is NOT a backdoor. It may have vulnerabilities, sure. But none explicitly put in there. It was designed for a specific purpose- troubleshooting enterprise computers. And it does that job amazingly well. No more IT guy guiding me when he can just do all the clicks himself.

I think this is one of those cases where you need to take into account the intent of the Intel ME and whether or not you can consider it a backdoor. Surely it's a useful tool in corporate environments but to any other average individual it's definitely a backdoor. It's a "feature" of nearly every modern x86 CPU that undoubtedly has capabilities of a backdoor that cannot be turned off or disabled by regular means. If I wanted to be able to remotely manage my machines out of band then I would've asked for it, but instead I foolishly bought myself into a very easy way for vendors to maintain control over me and my data.