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Minimum Viable Personality (2011)

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Re: Minimum Viable Personality (2011)

#71

Post by blotter_paper »

supernova87a wrote: post #28

I love that marketing works, and that people want to believe in values, and will band together over those values. However lately, I've felt that especially in the US, values -- or more accurately -- symbols of values have become more important than actual tangible outcomes or functional real achievements. For people as individuals and as groups. I guess of course that I'm especially thinking about our politics and so…

>Men at work are not harassing every female employee.

Ever work a shitty job in the food industry? Not all men are harassers, but anecdotally it seems like maybe 10-25% of men at these jobs will systematically harass every female employee below the age of 30. Unsolicited back-rubs, ass-grabs, the whole shebang. It's, like, really bad, and when the owner/manager is involved there's not much you can do. I do feel like the "always believe the accuser" narrative goes too far, but I don't think this behavior is really an edge case. It seems like a significant minority of males in unprofessional work environments.

Re: Minimum Viable Personality (2011)

#72

Post by jpfed »

oarabbus_ wrote: post #69
jpfed wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MeToo is an interesting example. I suspect that Facebook and Twitter have their own linear algebra models of who is interested in what, and that factors into their choices of what content from your friends makes it into your stream. After the wave of MeToo posts on Facebook and Twitter had died down, I asked my friends on Facebook to characterize how many MeToo posts they'd seen. Liberals reported seeing far more MeT…

>Liberals reported seeing far more MeToo posts than conservatives did. This could be "confirmation bias" or perhaps more accurately the Baader-Meinhof phenomenon... liberals tend to be more in-tune with the MeToo movement and therefore would be more likely to recall having seen it.

Yes, that is possible. Part of MeToo, as interpreted by liberals, was establishing a sort of quorum of those who had been victimized. The fact that other survivors were coming out with their experiences made it seem safer for each person to feel like they could reveal their own experiences. If liberals were disproportionately likely to notice the quorum, then they would be disproportionately likely to contribute their own stories, resulting in a positive feedback loop. That may be an even better explanation for the discrepancies than algorithmic balkanization.

In either case, for the people that I observed posting about it, MeToo was not symbolic; it was explicitly grounded in personal experience. But it's possible that the messages propagated differently in different areas of the social network, such that some others viewed it as symbolic.

Re: Minimum Viable Personality (2011)

#73

Post by [deleted] »

jpfed wrote: post #67
supernova87a wrote: post #28

I love that marketing works, and that people want to believe in values, and will band together over those values. However lately, I've felt that especially in the US, values -- or more accurately -- symbols of values have become more important than actual tangible outcomes or functional real achievements. For people as individuals and as groups. I guess of course that I'm especially thinking about our politics and so…

MeToo is an interesting example. I suspect that Facebook and Twitter have their own linear algebra models of who is interested in what, and that factors into their choices of what content from your friends makes it into your stream. After the wave of MeToo posts on Facebook and Twitter had died down, I asked my friends on Facebook to characterize how many MeToo posts they'd seen. Liberals reported seeing far more MeT…

[deleted]

Re: Minimum Viable Personality (2011)

#74

Post by skybrian »

swayvil wrote: post #39

I think that by "personality" he means "story". Like, a cool story that you can somehow attach to the product. So when people see the product they also think the story. And then they think, "woah, what a great product!". (But what they really mean is "woah, what a great story!") I see this in the art scene. It's like the art-piece isn't enough for people. They want an artist's statement. A philosophy. Who made it, wh…

Without cultural context, you might as well be looking at a mysterious ancient artifact from a lost civilization, or maybe procedurally generated random content from a video game.

It's nice when you can get the joke without it having to be explained to you, but that just means you share enough culture to get it, where a foreigner wouldn't. It doesn't mean you're smarter, it means you happened to have the education needed.

Re: Minimum Viable Personality (2011)

#75

Post by badpun »

hhs wrote: post #65
badpun wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think there's an assumption that generally a good company: "treats their customers with decency and respect." I disagree. Companies' are top-down in nature, so their values are set by their owners. Large companies are almost always owned by a multitide of entities (investors) that do not care about anything else than profits. In such case, maximizing profits is the only true value, and whatever else they might sa…

Thanks for the explanation. Interesting perspective. I'm finding that certain customer tribes over time get turned off by the point that "maximizing profits is the only true value, and whatever else they might say is smokescreen." This reminds me of the typical social media company (e.g., Facebook). Certain 'customers' have turned cynical because of the company's aim to maximize profits. I wonder what it's going to d…

It sure is making companies lose customers - the play is to be a dick, but only when the profits from it exceed the losses from disgruntled customers. Unfortunately I think at this point the customers are used to being routinely maltreated, so they don't turn their back on the terrible companies even in cases of blatant abuse (ex. a year after the VW scandal, their car had record sales in my country).

Re: Minimum Viable Personality (2011)

#76

Post by zeroname »

skybrian wrote: post #70
zeroname wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Immigrants are not invading in hordes. Subjectively, they are. > Men at work are not harassing every female employee. Subjectively, sexual harassment is extremely widespread. > People are not trying to kick out elderly widows to turn the block into a shopping mall. When I complain about my rent going up, it is of course much easier to make the case for the poor widow than myself . > Your shoe is not going to make y…

Basic economics: you're mostly competing with other people who apply for the same jobs as you. There is not one labor market, there are many, and they are often pretty specialized. You can't substitute a plumber for a lawyer or vice-versa. This is why different jobs pay different wages. This means it's never going to be all that useful to approach controversial issues like immigration at a high level of abstraction.…

> The details matter, and yet, here we are, talking in abstractions instead of from experience.

I ain't got time nor interest for the details. If you can't speak in terms that I can understand within a short timeframe, in a way that appeals to my preconceived notions, then I'm voting for the guy that promises me the wall.

Even as an untrained laborer, I used to be able to earn a decent living. Now I can't because wages have been driven down. I'm blaming immigrants. You're not convincing me otherwise, nerd.

> There are few facts here, lost in a sea of stylized summaries and witty exaggeration.

I'm obviously playing a couple of characters here, but the truth is embedded within. The facts don't matter when the emotions get in the way. It will be like this with humans, always. Ain't no use in lamenting it, better learn to deal with it.

> Maybe we shouldn't take it too seriously?

You absolutely should take it seriously.

Re: Minimum Viable Personality (2011)

#77

Post by morgancmartin »

blotter_paper wrote: post #71
supernova87a wrote: post #28

I love that marketing works, and that people want to believe in values, and will band together over those values. However lately, I've felt that especially in the US, values -- or more accurately -- symbols of values have become more important than actual tangible outcomes or functional real achievements. For people as individuals and as groups. I guess of course that I'm especially thinking about our politics and so…

>Men at work are not harassing every female employee. Ever work a shitty job in the food industry? Not all men are harassers, but anecdotally it seems like maybe 10-25% of men at these jobs will systematically harass every female employee below the age of 30. Unsolicited back-rubs, ass-grabs, the whole shebang. It's, like, really bad, and when the owner/manager is involved there's not much you can do. I do feel like…

To play devil's advocate, I have worked shitty jobs in the fast food industry. Two and a half years at McDonald's and then another two and a half at Longhorn Steakhouse. I never witnessed a single incident of physical harassment against any of the girls I worked with, not even once.

There was one guy that pushed the line a little too far sometimes but the girls weren't afraid of or offended by him so much as they took pity on him. He was a very depressed individual.

I'm not saying it doesn't happen, only that anecdotal evidence is fundamentally incomplete. It is entirely too small of a sample to be statistically significant.

Re: Minimum Viable Personality (2011)

#78

Post by scarejunba »

zeroname wrote: post #76
skybrian wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basic economics: you're mostly competing with other people who apply for the same jobs as you. There is not one labor market, there are many, and they are often pretty specialized. You can't substitute a plumber for a lawyer or vice-versa. This is why different jobs pay different wages. This means it's never going to be all that useful to approach controversial issues like immigration at a high level of abstraction.…

> The details matter, and yet, here we are, talking in abstractions instead of from experience. I ain't got time nor interest for the details. If you can't speak in terms that I can understand within a short timeframe, in a way that appeals to my preconceived notions, then I'm voting for the guy that promises me the wall. Even as an untrained laborer, I used to be able to earn a decent living. Now I can't because wag…

> I ain't got time nor interest for the details. If you can't speak in terms that I can understand within a short timeframe, in a way that appeals to my preconceived notions, then I'm voting for the guy that promises me the wall.

Haha, I like that. Everyone wants the elevator pitch. Fair enough.

Re: Minimum Viable Personality (2011)

#79

Post by everdrive »

jpfed wrote: post #67
supernova87a wrote: post #28

I love that marketing works, and that people want to believe in values, and will band together over those values. However lately, I've felt that especially in the US, values -- or more accurately -- symbols of values have become more important than actual tangible outcomes or functional real achievements. For people as individuals and as groups. I guess of course that I'm especially thinking about our politics and so…

MeToo is an interesting example. I suspect that Facebook and Twitter have their own linear algebra models of who is interested in what, and that factors into their choices of what content from your friends makes it into your stream. After the wave of MeToo posts on Facebook and Twitter had died down, I asked my friends on Facebook to characterize how many MeToo posts they'd seen. Liberals reported seeing far more MeT…

I think you're right. It's much less political, but I used to upload stuff to facebook that I thought might shock my friends. I eventually realized that this content of mine was showing up in almost no one's feed.

[edit]

It wasn't political or graphic material, just more "internet meme-y" than many of them were used to.

Re: Minimum Viable Personality (2011)

#80

Post by geodel »

morgancmartin wrote: post #77
blotter_paper wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Men at work are not harassing every female employee. Ever work a shitty job in the food industry? Not all men are harassers, but anecdotally it seems like maybe 10-25% of men at these jobs will systematically harass every female employee below the age of 30. Unsolicited back-rubs, ass-grabs, the whole shebang. It's, like, really bad, and when the owner/manager is involved there's not much you can do. I do feel like…

To play devil's advocate, I have worked shitty jobs in the fast food industry. Two and a half years at McDonald's and then another two and a half at Longhorn Steakhouse. I never witnessed a single incident of physical harassment against any of the girls I worked with, not even once. There was one guy that pushed the line a little too far sometimes but the girls weren't afraid of or offended by him so much as they too…

Of course chain restaurants will have strict anti-harassment policies else they would on hook for multi-million dollar lawsuits. The kind of abuse that above comment mentioned is most common at standalone places.
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