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National Opt-Out Day Called Against Invasive Body Scanners

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Re: National Opt-Out Day Called Against Invasive Body Scanners

#71

Post by cheald »

icefox wrote: post #65
trunnell wrote: post #33

This protest might not slow down security lines. These new scanners are pretty slow to begin with. When I went through SFO recently it took 1-2 minutes to go through the scanner. The slowness seemed to be a combination of the instructions given to the flyer for positioning themselves inside the device, the slowness of the device itself, and the slack in the line. In any case, I remember thinking that a pat-down might…

Recently when I choose not to go through the digital strip search they spent a good 20 minutes going through my stuff, asking me questions and getting a pat down.

The point is that if enough people are opting out, it's going to be a lot harder for them to take the time to individually harass people.

Re: National Opt-Out Day Called Against Invasive Body Scanners

#72

Post by tptacek »

hyperbovine wrote: post #54

I'm so tired of seeing pictures like this: http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/threatlevel/2010/11/airpor... Classic red herring. You couldn't sneak a pistol through security before 9/11, you couldn't do it after 9/11, and the NakedTron 5000 doesn't do a damn thing to change that.

The press has been running stories about random people managing to get guns past airport security for literally decades.

Re: National Opt-Out Day Called Against Invasive Body Scanners

#73

Post by tptacek »

_ouxp wrote: post #6

The TSA is now calling National Opt-Out Day "irresponsible." John Pistole, TSA Administrator: "On the eve of a major national holiday and less than one year after al Qaida's failed attack last Christmas Day, it is irresponsible for a group to suggest travelers opt out of the very screening that could prevent an attack using non-metallic explosives." http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2010/11/12/131275949/protest... That…

Wait, what? It's irresponsible for me to opt out of screening, because screening me might prevent an attack... how?

Re: National Opt-Out Day Called Against Invasive Body Scanners

#74

Post by cheald »

daimyoyo wrote: post #59

I would recommend taking this one step further. Let's all find a day in the next few months where we simply refuse to fly. We can call it "dignity day". If air traffic was significantly down because of this, the airlines would start pressuring the TSA to back off. After all, keeping shareholders happy trumps whatever safety concerns we might have.

This would be useless for the same reason that "Gas Out" boycotts are useless.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18492185/

The only way to make an impact is to fly less, not to shift your flying dates around to avoid a given day.

Re: National Opt-Out Day Called Against Invasive Body Scanners

#75

Post by techiferous »

synnik wrote: post #66
techiferous wrote: post #31

This reminds me of Gandhi's non-cooperation attitude and shrewdness in dealing with unjust people or policies in power. As an individual, you are powerless when you go through the security line. As a group, however, the American people have all of the power. Because this is both a democracy and a capitalist country (however flawed it may be), if there is an organized and concerted effort against the TSA policies, the…

The major difference between this situation and any efforts of Gandhi or the civil rights movement is one of leadership. An entire country would (and did) follow Gandhi. I don't think there is a single person in the US whom everyone would follow for a day. Especially if it meant shutting down all business travel during that day.

I tend to agree; however, if the issue was important enough I think that a significant portion of our population would organize to achieve a goal. Look at how many people showed up for the rally to restore fear and/or sanity which actually didn't have any stated goals.

Re: National Opt-Out Day Called Against Invasive Body Scanners

#76

Post by ojbyrne »

synnik wrote: post #66
techiferous wrote: post #31

This reminds me of Gandhi's non-cooperation attitude and shrewdness in dealing with unjust people or policies in power. As an individual, you are powerless when you go through the security line. As a group, however, the American people have all of the power. Because this is both a democracy and a capitalist country (however flawed it may be), if there is an organized and concerted effort against the TSA policies, the…

The major difference between this situation and any efforts of Gandhi or the civil rights movement is one of leadership. An entire country would (and did) follow Gandhi. I don't think there is a single person in the US whom everyone would follow for a day. Especially if it meant shutting down all business travel during that day.

I think that's a rose-colored view on Gandhi. Maybe eventually most of the country followed Gandhi, but I doubt that was the case immediately. Any disobedience campaign takes time to develop.

Re: National Opt-Out Day Called Against Invasive Body Scanners

#77

Post by barrkel »

aneth wrote: post #68
danilocampos wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It provides incremental security at a cost to our civil liberties and taxes that is orders of magnitude greater than existing policy.

Pedantics. The suggestion that full body scanners and effective pat downs provide no (or little) additional security over the status quo is difficult to believe. I'm guessing the same people critical of this policy criticized the previous one for being easy to circumvent. What do you all suggest we do?

Of the zero successful terrorist incidents in the last quarter-billion US flights in the past 9 years, how many would this technology and procedure have stopped?

How much money do we need to spend to prevent these zero events from occurring in the next 9 years?

And how much did extra was spent on preventing the third of a million motor deaths that occurred during the same period?

There is a huge lack of rationality in the middle of this issue for far too many people. The spending and procedures are way out of proportion to the risks, quite apart from how poorly allocated the spending is. The guy who used to run the TSA (Chertoff) now works for the guys selling these machines.

Re: National Opt-Out Day Called Against Invasive Body Scanners

#78

Post by bhiggins »

_ouxp wrote: post #6

The TSA is now calling National Opt-Out Day "irresponsible." John Pistole, TSA Administrator: "On the eve of a major national holiday and less than one year after al Qaida's failed attack last Christmas Day, it is irresponsible for a group to suggest travelers opt out of the very screening that could prevent an attack using non-metallic explosives." http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2010/11/12/131275949/protest... That…

John Pistole should man up, show some leadership, and release his bodyscan to the public to demonstrate through actions not words how these scanners aren't a big deal. John: we're waiting for the pics.

Re: National Opt-Out Day Called Against Invasive Body Scanners

#79

Post by aneth »

danilocampos wrote: post #44
aneth wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have always been coerced into procedures that violate our privacy when we fly. If we were not, terrorists would regularly board aircraft with guns and ammo. From a shitload of personal travel (I fly twice a month) I have found 95% of the TSA to be good humored and responsible. The situation today is fa better than it was when run by private companies.

> We have always been coerced into procedures that violate our privacy when we fly. Detecting metallic objects isn't really a violation of privacy. Neither is seeing an X-ray image of mundane baggage. This is your body, we're talking about. And I'm not aware of any previous policy that allowed TSA to cop a feel with such gratuitous abandon. > If we were not, terrorists would regularly board aircraft with guns and amm…

> Detecting metallic objects isn't really a violation of privacy. Neither is seeing an X-ray image of mundane baggage. This is your body, we're talking about. And I'm not aware of any previous policy that allowed TSA to cop a feel with such gratuitous abandon.

Personally, I'd rather have someone see a black and white outline of my naked body than look through my luggage - the former has no meaning or value, the second is actually private. What you consider "mundane," I consider personal.

> When "terrorists" and other boogeymen reach the airport with all their destructive goodies, our security apparatus has already failed.

So - no wiretaps, no racial profiling, no country profiling, no searches, no detainment, no internet monitoring - I suppose we use love and psychic powers?

Re: National Opt-Out Day Called Against Invasive Body Scanners

#80

Post by tilgovi »

hfinney wrote: post #64
Gibbon wrote: post #52

I'm emigrating from Canada to New Zealand and we're flying on Nov. 25. Since I'm near the border, we're flying from Detroit to Fort Worth and then LA.. I am not looking forward to this flight. I've already had dozens of medical x-rays in the past few months, and don't particularly want to get another dose, however low it may be. On the other hand, opting out sounds really unpleasant. I especially don't want my wife p…

There are two kinds of scanners. One uses low energy X-rays, the other uses microwaves. If you got the microwave kind, that would not add to your X-ray dose. I understand pat-downs within the U.S. are by same-sex agents. This wouldn't be the kind of thing they would get wrong.

As though the gender of the agent had any relevance...
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