Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

National Opt-Out Day Called Against Invasive Body Scanners

wired.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 105 posts

Re: National Opt-Out Day Called Against Invasive Body Scanners

#21

Post by physcab »

_ouxp wrote: post #6

The TSA is now calling National Opt-Out Day "irresponsible." John Pistole, TSA Administrator: "On the eve of a major national holiday and less than one year after al Qaida's failed attack last Christmas Day, it is irresponsible for a group to suggest travelers opt out of the very screening that could prevent an attack using non-metallic explosives." http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2010/11/12/131275949/protest... That…

To me it reads "if you want airport security to go faster so you can get to your plane on time and see your family in time, listen to and trust TSA personnel"

Re: National Opt-Out Day Called Against Invasive Body Scanners

#23

Post by danilocampos »

aneth wrote: post #19
tumult wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. These machines cost hundreds of thousands of dollars, offer no additional security, and take naked pictures of you. There really isn't much to discuss.

How does a full body scan not provide additional security over a metal detector? Another absurd counterintuitive postulate based on no evidence. Follow that up with "no discussion necessary" and you have mass hysteria.

The scan is for detecting additional, nonmetallic threats, especially explosives. Just one problem: nothing in the new procedures can prevent moving the same thing via your rectum.

So if we want to pretend everyone will adhere to a specific conception of the threat model, sure, spend a bunch of money and alienate the traveling public.

Re: National Opt-Out Day Called Against Invasive Body Scanners

#25

Post by aneth »

danilocampos wrote: post #23
aneth wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does a full body scan not provide additional security over a metal detector? Another absurd counterintuitive postulate based on no evidence. Follow that up with "no discussion necessary" and you have mass hysteria.

The scan is for detecting additional, nonmetallic threats, especially explosives. Just one problem: nothing in the new procedures can prevent moving the same thing via your rectum. So if we want to pretend everyone will adhere to a specific conception of the threat model, sure, spend a bunch of money and alienate the traveling public.

So because it doesn't provide absolute security it doesn't provide "additional" security? Those are two very different things.

Re: National Opt-Out Day Called Against Invasive Body Scanners

#26

Post by irons »

aneth wrote: post #15

This anti scanner fad stinks of mob mentality and hysteria. There is no evidence images have been stored at airports or that harm is caused by scans. There is a pathetic lack of rational discussion of factual policies and why such policies might be necessary, whether we like them or not. I expect more from the HN crowd. Someone want to fill us on on facts instead of speculation and fear mongering?

One major pilots union is already instructing its members to bypass the scans, out of concerns that the radiation dose is absorbed disproportionately by the skin:

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2010/11/american-air...

... a concern echoed by a group of UCSF biologists:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1268330...

I don't care much about the nakedness aspect, but I do resent security theater, which now apparently extends to physically intimidating "enhanced pat-downs" and making everyone remove belts, even at airports without backscatter imagers:

http://www.salon.com/technology/ask_the_pilot/2010/11/04/bel...

Re: National Opt-Out Day Called Against Invasive Body Scanners

#27

Post by miles »

aneth wrote: post #19
tumult wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. These machines cost hundreds of thousands of dollars, offer no additional security, and take naked pictures of you. There really isn't much to discuss.

How does a full body scan not provide additional security over a metal detector? Another absurd counterintuitive postulate based on no evidence. Follow that up with "no discussion necessary" and you have mass hysteria.

"How does a full body scan not provide additional security over a metal detector? Another absurd counterintuitive postulate based on no evidence."

Full-body scanners are waste of money, Israeli expert says

http://www.vancouversun.com/travel/Full+body+scanners+waste+...

A leading Israeli airport security expert says the Canadian government has wasted millions of dollars to install "useless" imaging machines at airports across the country.

"I don't know why everybody is running to buy these expensive and useless machines. I can overcome the body scanners with enough explosives to bring down a Boeing 747," Rafi Sela told parliamentarians probing the state of aviation safety in Canada.

"That's why we haven't put them in our airport," Sela said, referring to Tel Aviv's Ben Gurion International Airport, which has some of the toughest security in the world.

Sela, former chief security officer of the Israel Airport Authority and a 30-year veteran in airport security and defence technology, helped design the security at Ben Gurion.

Re: National Opt-Out Day Called Against Invasive Body Scanners

#28

Post by terryjsmith »

philfreo wrote: post #5
terryjsmith wrote: post #3

I can't get behind this, especially when it comes to kids. I really hope that someone finds proof they do store images and sues the US government/TSA for child pornography or something similar. While I doubt this opt-out day will gain serious traction to make a decision, I agree that the best thing to do is continue to call media attention to and scrutinize it.

The TSA has asserted that the machines cannot store pictures, but security personnel at a courthouse in Florida were found to not only have saved images but shared them among colleagues in order to humiliate one of their coworkers.

I saw that, but it's not enough. Someone needs to send some of these pictures (even better, pictures of congress members) to Wikileaks or a similar organization to really push this forward.

Re: National Opt-Out Day Called Against Invasive Body Scanners

#29

Post by aneth »

danilocampos wrote: post #20
aneth wrote: post #15

This anti scanner fad stinks of mob mentality and hysteria. There is no evidence images have been stored at airports or that harm is caused by scans. There is a pathetic lack of rational discussion of factual policies and why such policies might be necessary, whether we like them or not. I expect more from the HN crowd. Someone want to fill us on on facts instead of speculation and fear mongering?

Let's start with this: In a free society, people are being coerced to participate in a security procedure that violates their privacy. Don't want to go through the porno scanners? Okay, punk — have fun being aggressively groped in punishment. You don't get to enact this kind of invasive, extreme policy on a whim. Extreme measures call for extreme circumstances and at this point, no one has made any sort of compelling…

We have always been coerced into procedures that violate our privacy when we fly. If we were not, terrorists would regularly board aircraft with guns and ammo.

From a shitload of personal travel (I fly twice a month) I have found 95% of the TSA to be good humored and responsible. The situation today is fa better than it was when run by private companies.

Re: National Opt-Out Day Called Against Invasive Body Scanners

#30

Post by SkyMarshal »

_ouxp wrote: post #6

The TSA is now calling National Opt-Out Day "irresponsible." John Pistole, TSA Administrator: "On the eve of a major national holiday and less than one year after al Qaida's failed attack last Christmas Day, it is irresponsible for a group to suggest travelers opt out of the very screening that could prevent an attack using non-metallic explosives." http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2010/11/12/131275949/protest... That…

"On the eve of a major national holiday and less than one year after al Qaida's failed attack last Christmas Day, it is irresponsible for a group to suggest travelers opt out of the very screening that could prevent an attack using non-metallic explosives."

He seems to be overlooking the possibility that things are getting so bad with the TSA that increasing numbers of travelers would rather take their chances with terrorists and underwear bombs than submit to the TSA's heavy-handed, dehumanizing procedures.

Post reply on HN