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The money, job, marriage myth: are you happy yet?

theguardian.com

71–80 of 195 posts

Re: The money, job, marriage myth: are you happy yet?

#71

Money gave me stability. Stability allowed me to have time for introspection. Introspection allowed me to target issues in my life. Fixing those issues is lowering my discomfort in life. Money won't fix anything for you but it will provide you an environment where you can.

Your life is literally made up of the things you pay attention to. If those are happy things, you will probably be more happy than not, and vice-versa. Money gives you a choice about what to pay attention to. If you are in a survival or starvation situation, you will be forced to pay attention to surviving / eating. Not having a choice about what you can pay attention to means your life is defined by outside forces. If these align with what you like, you can be happy in those situations; but if not, you will struggle.

Re: The money, job, marriage myth: are you happy yet?

#72
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a choice.

Then what is it? Jordan Peterson, who for a long time I wrote off as a crackpot until I actually paid attention to some of his interviews and lectures, talks a lot about this. Happiness is a pretty crappy goal to have. It's a side effect of pursuing actual, worthwhile goals. People need to take some responsibility for their own state of mind and the things they are choosing to do that affect it.

People take responsibility for their own mind. To the point that they see basic emotions as sins in both themselves and others. To the point where unhappiness is seen as something wrong with you and something you should not talk about.

Also, worthy goals often bring pain. They often require you to forego own hapiness for something you consider more valuable. They often leave you burnout, feeling empty, unsatisfied and tired maybe even ressentfull. In particular, caregiving work is often like that. Soldiers also follow goals worthy to them (whether you personally agree or not with this or that goal) and are not happier in the result - it is called sacrifice for a reason. Those two are just obvious examples, not the only ones.

In addition to all that, your own happy personally worthy goal often brings unhappiness to somebody else, often to familly. It is extremely unfair to then blame that person for his or her own unhappiness since that has a lot to do with mine (or yours) decisions.

Re: The money, job, marriage myth: are you happy yet?

#74

Americans are becoming too rational and this is a major problem. When you over-value rationality, you expect to be able to have a rational answer to every question. The hand-licking story that made the front page today illustrates this point perfectly. Approached rationally, the mom could not solve the problem, no amount of mental effort would yield a resolution or insight into the issue. When the mind expects an ans…

Perhaps the starkest example of this phenomenon is when atheists lament that there aren't any atheist churches. 50 years ago, if you were an atheist, you still went to church. They were still the pillars that communities revolved around, the very loom of the fabric of society.

Nowadays, we've thrown away every last bit of symbolism that brings people together and wonder why we're so lonely. If things aren't perfectly rational, people's minds rebel immediately and harshly, like it's my fault you don't understand a concept requiring depth of study to really grasp.

You had me up until here. First of all, who's lonely, who's "we"? In a conformist society, those who think differently can find it more lonely, by definition. Second, atheists went to Church? Well was that because if they didn't, they were ostracized -- and, well, lonely?

Children of higher intelligence (we do believe that it's possible that we're not all blank slates at birth, right?) tend to find it more lonely than children of average intelligence.

If you consider yourself an exceptional (in some way) person -- rightly or wrongly -- you'll find things more complicated socially.

Now I think you're onto something with the rationality bit, but not in the Nietzschean way you're alluding to (religion and community). Instead, well look at how we create our social bonds in the U.S.: use-value.

Have you ever been in a position of power, and found that suddenly everyone wanted to be your friend?

Or, have you read what men and women write on dating websites in terms of what they want? These to me are more evidence of a "rationality militates against happiness" than your strange atheist example.

Re: The money, job, marriage myth: are you happy yet?

#75

Money gave me stability. Stability allowed me to have time for introspection. Introspection allowed me to target issues in my life. Fixing those issues is lowering my discomfort in life. Money won't fix anything for you but it will provide you an environment where you can.

Wealth creates discomforts and tells you that you need wealth to alleviate them. Don't buy into it the hype too much.

What discomfort does wealth create? It enables you to make yourself uncomfortable, yes, but wealth itself will not make you uncomfortable.

Re: The money, job, marriage myth: are you happy yet?

#76
post #8

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonic_treadmill We spend a lot of our time trying to add pleasure to our lives to (temporarily) boost us above our baseline happiness level, when really we should be spending that time learning how to change the baseline level itself. Isn't it odd that there are monks who live with nothing who are probably happier than any of us?

How do you know those monks are "happier"? How can you measure something like that?

I can't even measure my own "happiness" most of the time, and it's a different part of my brain giving that report (usually full of crap and not realistic) from the part that actually experiences "happiness".

Re: The money, job, marriage myth: are you happy yet?

#77
post #8

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonic_treadmill We spend a lot of our time trying to add pleasure to our lives to (temporarily) boost us above our baseline happiness level, when really we should be spending that time learning how to change the baseline level itself. Isn't it odd that there are monks who live with nothing who are probably happier than any of us?

I've dreamed quite often about becoming a monk. It's not odd at all that if you limit your input your overall self is better for it. It's not really a reachable goal though, to remove all of my responsibilities and become so selfish as to become a monk. Here is the issue, you have a responsibility to the rest of the human race, to become self contained and not give back, is breaking the social contract don't you think?

Re: The money, job, marriage myth: are you happy yet?

#78
post #8

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonic_treadmill We spend a lot of our time trying to add pleasure to our lives to (temporarily) boost us above our baseline happiness level, when really we should be spending that time learning how to change the baseline level itself. Isn't it odd that there are monks who live with nothing who are probably happier than any of us?

How do you know those monks are "happier"? How can you measure something like that? I can't even measure my own "happiness" most of the time, and it's a different part of my brain giving that report (usually full of crap and not realistic) from the part that actually experiences "happiness".

Contentment = happiness in this context?

Re: The money, job, marriage myth: are you happy yet?

#80

There is nothing which will make you happy. You must choose to be happy. There is no job, no amount of money, no relationship, which will make you feel whole and happy and content and done. The opposite doesn't hold - there are jobs and relationships and financial strains which will certainly keep you from being happy. The goal isn't for a job or a relationship to make you happy. It's to enable other things which are…

It's not a choice.

Happiness is not a direct choice but choose to help someone or choose to learn a new skill. Those things will make you happier in the long run.
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