Ibuprofen alters human testicular physiology to produce compensated hypogonadism • Hacker News Board

Re: Ibuprofen alters human testicular physiology to produce compensated hypogonadism

#71

Post by drb91 » Sun, Dec 30, 2018, 6:01 AM UTC

michaco33 wrote: post #3

jey wrote: post #2

"Ibuprofen and hypogonadism — bench to bedside to misinterpreted hype?" at https://www.nature.com/articles/nrurol.2018.26 : > A recent study suggests modulation of luteinizing hormone signalling within the hypothalamic–pituitary–gonadal axis and downstream transcriptional effects caused by sustained ibuprofen use. However, this study cannot be used to draw any clinical conclusions regarding effects of ibuprofen on ma…

Sounds like the industry responding with "we cant really know guys, right?" I'm throwing away my Advil right now. Screw that.

OTOH acetaminophen is known to be toxic; is there an alternative here for non narcotic inflammation, fever, and pain relief that is shown NOT to have tradeoffs for use?

Re: Ibuprofen alters human testicular physiology to produce compensated hypogonadism

#72

Post by drb91 » Sun, Dec 30, 2018, 6:02 AM UTC

potiuper wrote: post #53

an_account_name wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fevers kill. Ibuprofen and acetaminophen reduce fevers.

Fevers do not kill. Fever is a symptom, which is subjective, not a cause of death.

I truly admire your confidence, even it I cannot have it myself.

Re: Ibuprofen alters human testicular physiology to produce compensated hypogonadism

#73

Post by gumby » Sun, Dec 30, 2018, 6:02 AM UTC

rixrax wrote: post #64

gonyea wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get what you're saying, but ibuprofen and acetaminophen save lives. The problem is the western (American?) tendency to self-medicate and to over medicate with really potent stuff. That shouldn't be as normal as it is.

This. Just had friends visiting. Their teenage son had had his wisdom tooth pulled last week. Dentist had then given him (as a standard practice?) prescription for Ibuprofen (800mg tabs?) AND some opioid based pain killer! Needless to say, latter they said went directly to trash after they realized what it contained and for ibuprofen they halved the dosage. To me and his parents this was pain management gone way over…

> So what to do?

One thing is not to put medicines, OTC or not, into the trash. They are nasty stuff to have in the dump.

As for the drugs: don’t take analegics if you don’t need to; do if you can’t tolerate the pain. Everybody has a different level of pain and tolerance and I bet the prescription said something along the lines of “...as needed”

As for other prescriptions, do your research; odds are you do need it but not always.

Re: Ibuprofen alters human testicular physiology to produce compensated hypogonadism

#74

Post by dilyevsky » Sun, Dec 30, 2018, 6:04 AM UTC

Really cool. I’ve been hearing for years now in the athletic community that ibuprofen “kills gains”. Thought it was just a fud. Turns out - likely not.

Re: Ibuprofen alters human testicular physiology to produce compensated hypogonadism

#75

Post by phlakaton » Sun, Dec 30, 2018, 6:06 AM UTC

rixrax wrote: post #64

gonyea wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get what you're saying, but ibuprofen and acetaminophen save lives. The problem is the western (American?) tendency to self-medicate and to over medicate with really potent stuff. That shouldn't be as normal as it is.

This. Just had friends visiting. Their teenage son had had his wisdom tooth pulled last week. Dentist had then given him (as a standard practice?) prescription for Ibuprofen (800mg tabs?) AND some opioid based pain killer! Needless to say, latter they said went directly to trash after they realized what it contained and for ibuprofen they halved the dosage. To me and his parents this was pain management gone way over…

What to do? IMO: follow the doctor's/pharmacist's instructions precisely. In my case we were instructed to only break out the opidoid in the event of severe pain (has never happened to me but I guess it's possible), and there were quite specific instructions regarding it. If you don't end up needing it, dispose of it.

Re: Ibuprofen alters human testicular physiology to produce compensated hypogonadism

#76

Post by sandworm101 » Sun, Dec 30, 2018, 6:06 AM UTC

potiuper wrote: post #66

sandworm101 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fever can indeed kill. Raise the body temp a few degrees, no matter the cause, and things start going wrong very quickly. Google hyperthermia. In fact, i cannot think of any disease that literally kills. Even with the big stuff like cancer or aids, it is always the symptoms that get you. They damage body systems and the decline of those systems (aka symptoms) eventually causes the cardiac arrest or internal bleeds th…

Hyperthermia differs from fever in that the body's temperature set point remains unchanged. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperthermia

Yes but the extra heat in the body causes the same cascade of chemical changes that will eventually kill. Initial treatment is different, to a point. If a fever is too high it will suddenly need the same treatment as hyperthermia: direct cooling.

Re: Ibuprofen alters human testicular physiology to produce compensated hypogonadism

#77

Post by Escolte » Sun, Dec 30, 2018, 6:06 AM UTC

rixrax wrote: post #64

gonyea wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get what you're saying, but ibuprofen and acetaminophen save lives. The problem is the western (American?) tendency to self-medicate and to over medicate with really potent stuff. That shouldn't be as normal as it is.

This. Just had friends visiting. Their teenage son had had his wisdom tooth pulled last week. Dentist had then given him (as a standard practice?) prescription for Ibuprofen (800mg tabs?) AND some opioid based pain killer! Needless to say, latter they said went directly to trash after they realized what it contained and for ibuprofen they halved the dosage. To me and his parents this was pain management gone way over…

This is why I hate reading these type of posts on HN. Especially like in this case where there's still a lot to be researched on and to drawn conclusions from, and the outlook isn't positive.

My recommendation is to go and talk to your doctor and confront him or her with this "finding".

Also, most importantly, this "finding" has been out for almost a year now. I wonder what's the more recent development on it.

Re: Ibuprofen alters human testicular physiology to produce compensated hypogonadism

#78

Post by ttflee » Sun, Dec 30, 2018, 6:06 AM UTC

bitL wrote: post #46

So, if one wants to reduce sex drive in order to focus on much more interesting tasks without any interruption, ibuprofen is the way?

https://www.buzzfeed.com/caseygueren/feeling-happy-but-not-s...

Re: Ibuprofen alters human testicular physiology to produce compensated hypogonadism

#79

Post by robbiep » Sun, Dec 30, 2018, 6:08 AM UTC

an_account_name wrote: post #39

scjr wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not aware of any common uses of Ibuprofen and Acetominophen that saves lives?

Fevers kill. Ibuprofen and acetaminophen reduce fevers.

Not necessarily. Fevers can cause seizures and they can have detrimental effects in paediatric patients. For the bulk of the general population, these painkillers/anti inflammatories are simply symptom relief.

For those talking about hyperthermia killing, yes but in almost all those cases the cause is not an infection.

In fact, I would say that paracetamol kills a hell of a lot more patients than it actually ‘saves’.

A study I have taken to heart is that permissive hyperthermia (up to 40 deg c) in ICU patients has a greater survival than those where fever is treated aggressively.

Physiologically, this resonates because high temperatures activate the immune system and raised temperatures are non-optimal for bacterial proliferation; so the immune system is primed by fever; suppressing it can dull immune system response.

In fact, malaria was used as a treatment for syphillis in the early parts of the 20th century because high temperatures kill spirochetes. There are also a decent number of case reports of cancers going into remission following fever.

However in my quick mobile google then I could only see the following study that demonstrated no advantage for either control of permissive hyperthermia group in ICU patients; so perhaps I was relying on a study that has been superceeded.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/pdf/10.1056/NEJMoa1508375

Re: Ibuprofen alters human testicular physiology to produce compensated hypogonadism

#80

Post by xerxe-sans-s » Sun, Dec 30, 2018, 6:09 AM UTC

snibss wrote: post #65

SubiculumCode wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those downvoting parent please see https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5015806/ And others. True or not, parent wasn't just making up the empathy-painkiller association.

The point being: it's a psychological study, in relation to behavior and emotion, which cannot be measured with NEARLY the same degree of ease or precision as sex-related endocrine effects. It's behavior, and thus potentially non-replicable. It's soft science at best. Is someone being a jerk? Is it some strange long term NSAID side-effect? Why are they being so cold and callous? Is this just an artifact of social bia…

Your first argument discounted psychological studies primarily on the basis that there are two many dimensions to account for in relation to a measurement of behavior.

You then went on to suggest a link between gender identification and the results of a study on a single variable. It’s probably the case there are many environmental and physical dimensions at play with gender identity. While I can’t say at this point that your link is wrong, it may be best to hold back on the last assumptions; especially a biologically based one, given the scope of the impact.