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Feds: Chinese spies orchestrated hack that stole aviation secrets

arstechnica.com

71–80 of 95 posts

Re: Feds: Chinese spies orchestrated hack that stole aviation secrets

#71
> ....a hacking group calling itself the Syrian Electronic Army hacked an Australian domain registrar

> In early December 2013, prosecutors said, members of the conspiracy used the same tactic to hack the Australian registrar again, this time to hijack domain names of one of the targeted technology companies.

What's with that registrar, don't they learn from their own mistakes?

Re: Feds: Chinese spies orchestrated hack that stole aviation secrets

#72
post #62

I love reading about the Chinese efforts in developing a modern turbofan engine. For whatever reason, they just can't build a good medium- or high- bypass turbofan in-house. They're latest WS-20 is basically a clone of the CFM-56 and previously they spent decades developing the WS-6 and WS-10 that never met expectations. This is a big deal because the Comac 919 is ready to go but without a powerplant, they're having…

China also couldn't make a ballpoint pen until last year [1]. I imagine making a modern jet engine is somewhat more challenging than making a ballpoint pen (both endeavours involve making high precision metal parts). [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/01/18...

"Couldn't" is a bit unfair. The article seems to imply that it wasn't from a lack of trying, but a lack of interest, and a company only took on the challenge after the issue became considered an issue of national pride and came to light.

The numbers given suggested that it cost just over $17 million to import the pen tips to manufacture 38 billion pens. Which puts the cost per tip at $0.00045/piece.

It's not hard to see why manufacturers wouldn't bother creating a process and tooling for that if it already exists.

More importantly, the article put emphasis on the idea that once the government complained about it, something was done quite quickly. Which is completely different story to a military jet engine, which is being researched, funded and developed by government-linked organizations.

Re: Feds: Chinese spies orchestrated hack that stole aviation secrets

#73
post #49

I have a serious question: why don't governments impose sanctions on other governments that hack them when there is sufficient proof?

Because every government hacks, spies on and steals from every other government. The US was built on stealing tech from britain.

https://www.pri.org/stories/2014-02-18/us-complains-other-na...

Going back even further, the byzantine empire stole silkworms to break china's monopoly on silk.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smuggling_of_silkworm_eggs_int...

As a matter of fact, the biggest spies and thieves in the world are allies. Do you know who spies on the US the most? It's not china. It's not russia. It's actually canada, britain and israel. Do you know who we spy on the most? Our allies. We aren't going to sanction our allies.

Think about it. Why do countries have intelligence agencies? Should we sanction all countries with intelligence agencies?

Re: Feds: Chinese spies orchestrated hack that stole aviation secrets

#74
I hear in the news stories about companies being highjacked by hackers, where the hackers encrypt said companies' data and demand a ransom. If that is possible, then wouldn't it be possible for US backed hackers to do the same to the Chinese backed organizations that stole American IP?

It seems ineffective to just publicly indict Chinese hackers that are in China. The indictments are public, so the likelihood that said hackers come to the US are nill. Seems more effective to erase the trade secrets, or any other data, from these organizations.

Re: Feds: Chinese spies orchestrated hack that stole aviation secrets

#75
post #54
post #49

I have a serious question: why don't governments impose sanctions on other governments that hack them when there is sufficient proof?

Because that would be hypocritical. Most likely all large governments try to hack other governments.

Exactly, and, as we all know, hypocritical crimes are treated very seriously by very toothful U.N.

Re: Feds: Chinese spies orchestrated hack that stole aviation secrets

#76

I used to work at Nortel Networks along with 130,000 other people. Nortel went bankrupt and now everyone who used to work there is fighting for their pensions. Apparently a major contributor to their downfall was all of the IP being stolen and sensitive information about deals going down otherwise exfiltrated by Huawei[1] People need to get serious about protecting the privacy of their communications and data. Nobody…

> Apparently a major contributor to their downfall was all of the IP being stolen If a company is heavily dependent upon existing IP then having it all stolen will be a major contributor to their downfall. But so is that dependence. Hard to make suggestions without appearing to victim blame, but companies need to be able to survive even without secrets.

Why? If you follow that standard, you are basically saying that no R&D should ever be done, because you may just get it stolen and lose any kind of benefit you would derive from doing the R&D in the first place.

Re: Feds: Chinese spies orchestrated hack that stole aviation secrets

#77
post #49

I have a serious question: why don't governments impose sanctions on other governments that hack them when there is sufficient proof?

You don’t think some part of the tariffs is because of this?

It is, I have no idea why you have been downvoted

Re: Feds: Chinese spies orchestrated hack that stole aviation secrets

#78
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apparently a major contributor to their downfall was all of the IP being stolen If a company is heavily dependent upon existing IP then having it all stolen will be a major contributor to their downfall. But so is that dependence. Hard to make suggestions without appearing to victim blame, but companies need to be able to survive even without secrets.

Why? If you follow that standard, you are basically saying that no R&D should ever be done, because you may just get it stolen and lose any kind of benefit you would derive from doing the R&D in the first place.

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying don't build an overly large dependence on past R&D where resting on those laurels threatens the whole company if theft occurs.

Re: Feds: Chinese spies orchestrated hack that stole aviation secrets

#79

I hear in the news stories about companies being highjacked by hackers, where the hackers encrypt said companies' data and demand a ransom. If that is possible, then wouldn't it be possible for US backed hackers to do the same to the Chinese backed organizations that stole American IP? It seems ineffective to just publicly indict Chinese hackers that are in China. The indictments are public, so the likelihood that sa…

That would raise a variety of other serious issues. Besides the ethical problem that just because someone else does something bad, doesn't make it ok for you to do that bad thing.

I could list several important reasons why "hacking back" would be a bad idea, but I'll just stick to the pragmatic "people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones". We have a much larger surface area and much more to lose if we get into that kind of tit-for-tat. Instead, the US is building a case that China is an aggressor, and is responding in other ways that will apply more pressure. For example, tariffs on Chinese exports.

Re: Feds: Chinese spies orchestrated hack that stole aviation secrets

#80
post #65

If the "spies" really did "steal" (i.e. copy) an engine design then it seems like a good thing for the world in general. They have helped spread useful knowledge. Sure, it's bad for the would-be rent-seekers whose plans have been threatened. Why should anyone else care about them? Thanks China, and keep up the good work!

By "rent-seekers" you mean organizations that have spent billions of dollars to research and prove the tech? As the current top comment represents, if company A spends billions of dollars creating a technology, then company B steals it, company B can sell it for less because they don't have to pay the R&D overhead. Company A falters or dies. The company that actually knew how to advance the field and create new tech suffered. Is that good for the world?

The way it is supposed to work is, company A researches a tech, company b also researches a tech, the best one wins (or more likely they split the market), the competition induces more advances, and eventually the old tech becomes cheap (or free) and widely available as it is supplanted by even newer, better tech.

And yea I know our patent system is broken, etc. But I don't understand how you can have a general principle that the people who created something don't have the right to benefit off of it.

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