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The cost of keeping Singapore squeaky clean

bbc.com

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Re: The cost of keeping Singapore squeaky clean

#71

Post by korantu »

sampo wrote: post #56
korantu wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The standard reply would be - if the government controls everything and gets corrupted - it has the power to corrupt everything. This is a worry - there is no feedback loop unless government makes sure it is. On the other hand, if current government really can't control who will be elected next, then there is less chance that current government abuses power. And having armed citizenry reduces chances of government go…

Do you think the other countries in the area are less corrupted than Singapore?

Sorry, I did not make it clear. I was talking about dynamics, IF government of Singapore for some reason in the future decides to do crazy shit - citizens will have harder time stopping it. That's all. I am not referring to situation right now, only in an unlikely future.

Re: The cost of keeping Singapore squeaky clean

#72

Post by baybal2 »

maxxxxx wrote: post #2

Singapore is an interesting case study how a well-run government that restricts a lot of freedoms can work remarkably well. I wonder if this model is sustainable long term.

I lived in Singapore for 2 years as an exchange student. The city does get credit for what it isn't.

The level of competence of local civil administrators is overstated. All Singaporean oldtimers I knew were quietly lambasting their incompetence, but what you can give them is that, while being really mediocre at that, they were doing their job, and did it consistently year after year.

This is shows how far an institute of civil administration can go by "simply having people who simply do their job." This is what I see less and less in Western countries.

Regarding cleanliness, clean for sure, but Shenzhen central districts are by far more "squeaky clean." :D

Regarding Singapore's economy - pale and waning away. The country has an own economy for sure, but it is no longer a global player.

Before China's accession to WTO, a double digit of GDP was coming just from stamping "made in Singapore" on Chinese goods and reexporting them. The day China acceded to WTO, was almost a national day of mourning there.

Since then, Singapore's economy made a U turn, and became a gigantic offshore heaven for Chinese money. They don't really have any other major source of wealth other than that now.

LKY don't deserve to get credit for his "genius" for simply turning a country into an offshore bank.

Re: The cost of keeping Singapore squeaky clean

#73

Post by Arn_Thor »

philliphaydon wrote: post #43
p1mrx wrote: post #38

I once wandered around Singapore for a few days, and their infrastructure is mostly great, except that I never encountered a single drinking fountain. Not in the airport, train stations, shopping centers, food courts, public buildings... Does everyone buy/carry water every day, or how do they survive?

Singapore is (I think) the only country in Asia that you can drink water from a tap. But even so, people here still boil water before drinking it. So outside people will buy water even if a fountain was available.

Only country in Asia? What? Japan, South Korea, Brunei, Hong Kong (in the latter, it can depend on the pipes in older buildings, but the water coming from the mains is definitely safe).

Re: The cost of keeping Singapore squeaky clean

#74

Post by Arn_Thor »

raincom wrote: post #4

The area of Singapore is 278 sq miles, approximately the size of 17 miles square. Whatever policies that work in such small high density places won't work in larger countries. However, one can try to decentralize as much as possible; such decentralization may not work in large countries either.

Sure, the exact same policies won't work. But even rural Japan is very clean compared to most of Europe, even, so there clearly are ways to sort it out

Re: The cost of keeping Singapore squeaky clean

#76

Post by jernfrost »

raincom wrote: post #4

The area of Singapore is 278 sq miles, approximately the size of 17 miles square. Whatever policies that work in such small high density places won't work in larger countries. However, one can try to decentralize as much as possible; such decentralization may not work in large countries either.

Both Japan and Switzerland are know to be very clean and much larger.

But they seem to approach it very differently.

I seem to remember Spain being quite clean too. People mopped the pavements in one of the towns I visited every morning.

Re: The cost of keeping Singapore squeaky clean

#77

Post by sho »

philliphaydon wrote: post #58
latch wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Japan and South Korea tap water is safe...and I think it's commonly consumed in Japan. Koreans approach it like Singaporeans..some do, some boil.

I just googled and see Japan tape water is safe to drink. I've been by hotels in Tokyo, Kyoto, and Mt Fuji all told me not to drink the tap water. Hence I thought it wasn't drinkable. Good to know it is! I've never been to South Korea, yet.

I don't know which hotels you went to but that is bizarre. All water in Japan is safe to drink and, furthermore, is some of the best drinking water on earth IMO.

You probably misunderstood, or perhaps the hotel staff were all sharing the same oddly wrong english handbook...

Re: The cost of keeping Singapore squeaky clean

#78

Post by guywhocodes »

Sureai wrote: post #6

I am right now in Singapore for a visit and personally I don't have the feeling of a very clean city. There are some things that drive me crazy as a european. I went to a hawker with some Singaporeans and we got new disposable chopsticks for every dish. Wich means I ended up with three pairs of chopsticks. All plates were disposable. Either of plastic or styrofoam. Like in the article we didn't clean our trays, a cle…

If you are not asking for take away, only the tourist-trap hawker centres will give you single use of anything but maybe tiny plastic sauce trays. What you experienced is incredibly far from the norm.

Re: The cost of keeping Singapore squeaky clean

#79

Post by jernfrost »

latch wrote: post #14
maxxxxx wrote: post #2

Singapore is an interesting case study how a well-run government that restricts a lot of freedoms can work remarkably well. I wonder if this model is sustainable long term.

I lived in Singapore for a couple years and I can say that, at least as an expat, you hardly feel restrictions. Of the Singaporeans I know, locals from young to old, they all love it. Like all countries, it has its issues, but consider: - Freedom of religion particularly stands out - It has great and affordable health care - It's safe - Very easy to do business I could list more. Maybe freedom means something differe…

I think most people don’t “feel” unfree even in most dictatorships. You don’t read or hear about the people locked up. As long as you live a notmal life you will feel free.

The real test of freedom is when something goes wrong or you challenge the authorities.

Re: The cost of keeping Singapore squeaky clean

#80

Post by Reason077 »

In London, the “war on litter bins” (removal of litter bins from train stations and central areas, supposedly to prevent them being misused by terrorists) has created a culture of simply leaving litter on the floor or in the street because there are no bins to put it in.

Perhaps that’s ok in busy central locations where a street cleaner will be along shortly to pick it up, but the problem is that people are now accustomed to dropping litter and do the same in suburbs, parks, and countryside where it just accumulates.

How do we solve it? We need to teach environmental education in schools and try to stop littering habits before they form.

But also, I think a great application for robotics technology will be litter picking, street-cleaning robots!

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