Shocked by online comments, reporter writes profile of hit-and-run victim • Hacker News Board

Re: Shocked by online comments, reporter writes profile of hit-and-run victim

#71

Post by natrius » Sat, Oct 02, 2010, 5:15 PM UTC

sliverstorm wrote: post #13

The comment on the article reveals completely the lack of intelligence and elitism of the commenter. It may be wonderful to think that the people who man lower-end jobs are somehow less deserving than you, and somehow should be executed. But without those people filling those low-end jobs, our world would fall apart. No matter what you think of them, you need them, whether you realize it or not. And on the other hand…

I don't like your first argument because it won't always be true. It seems more an more likely that most of those low-end jobs will be automated away at some point during this century. The argument for the worth of every human being needs to be based on something besides needing to have them around for your convenience. Fortunately, I think there are plenty of arguments that meet that requirement.

Re: Shocked by online comments, reporter writes profile of hit-and-run victim

#72

Post by gruseom » Sat, Oct 02, 2010, 5:21 PM UTC

viraptor wrote: post #60

sliverstorm wrote: post #13

The comment on the article reveals completely the lack of intelligence and elitism of the commenter. It may be wonderful to think that the people who man lower-end jobs are somehow less deserving than you, and somehow should be executed. But without those people filling those low-end jobs, our world would fall apart. No matter what you think of them, you need them, whether you realize it or not. And on the other hand…

Or the commenter was simply a troll. You get them on almost every news site now. Commenting on every article with something that will most likely cause others to argue / start a flamewar. I'm not sure if that needed a response at all. People not used to internet commenters sometimes give in too easily and start feeding the trolls... it only wastes your time and gives someone more chance to have "fun".

You're right, but the article isn't really a response to that one comment, it's a response to all such comments.

Re: Shocked by online comments, reporter writes profile of hit-and-run victim

#73

Post by Psyonic » Sat, Oct 02, 2010, 5:29 PM UTC

jrockway wrote: post #29

Psyonic wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A co-worker at my last job said she even had people go so far as to throw stuff out their windows at her as they passed while she was cycling... ever happened to you?

Nope. Mostly honking and one case of being told I was a bastard. I live in the city, though, and people are used to bikes. If someone threw something at me, the police would have the license plate number so fast it'd be scary. Littering is a $500 fine.

It does sound like things are better in the city. It's sad to see so many commenters have experienced it though.

Re: Shocked by online comments, reporter writes profile of hit-and-run victim

#74

Post by gruseom » Sat, Oct 02, 2010, 6:05 PM UTC

webwright wrote: post #64

TGJ wrote: post #3

How aggravating. "I'll go through 10 people before I find another like him" yet he will continue to pay the man 7.25 an hour. Everything you want out of an employee and nothing else and you can't pay the guy better than dirt cheap minimum wage and somehow lament at his death.

A lot of people make this point. I'm not sure I'm ready to pass quick judgement that the restaurant owner should reward loyalty with money. Restaurant owners can be pretty poor and a 50 cent raise would result in the owner having ~$1300 less in his pocket every year. While he appreciates loyalty, he might rather suck up the extra effort of replacing dishwashers than rewarding loyal ones. He could be armpit deep in de…

I think that's right. Plus it goes against the spirit of the article to rush to judge the owner. It's only because he cared enough about Neil Smith that the rest of us ever heard of him. And condemning him based only on his class position is pretty much what the original comments did to Neil.

Re: Shocked by online comments, reporter writes profile of hit-and-run victim

#75

Post by gruseom » Sat, Oct 02, 2010, 6:17 PM UTC

mixmax wrote: post #46

GiraffeNecktie wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Hackers" are not a monolithic group that share exactly the same interests. Some people (hackers or not) might have intellectual curiosity about the lives of ordinary people, about how a media organization responded (or, in other stories, failed to respond) to nasty online comments, or about how a simple news item (man on bike killed in hit and run) can be given layers of meaning. Personally I found a great deal of s…

Sandman is correct in his asessment - I completely understand the point and context of the article as explained in these comments. I simply didn't understand why it seemed to be interesting enough to gather 100+ votes. You can call the original question an attempt to gratify my intellectual curiosity as to why this story is so interesting. Your comment sheds some light on it, personally I still don't see the value of…

I posted it as "evidence of some interesting new phenomenon": a journalist finds a decent way to push back against online abusiveness. The story isn't really about one guy, it's about human relations and the value of human life. In other words the real story is all meta, but the reporter had the sense do it unobtrusively and keep the focus on Neil.

There's a secondary way in which this is an interesting phenomenon, too: the story is being picked up by other media outlets because it resonates with many people. I caught part of an interview with the reporter on CBC radio last night. While they did talk explicitly about the meta aspect (what prompted you to write it, what were you trying to achieve, how do you think the internet is affecting people), they also had the sense to devote most of the piece to Neil Smith. What the reporter figured out is that by focusing on the details of this individual, he could make a general point more powerfully than by stating it in general. That excites my curiosity.

Edit: There are two common responses to nasty online comments: argue with them or ignore them. Most people figure out after a while that arguing just feeds the trolls, so ignoring is better. But this guy came up with an innovative way to respond: he elevated the thing that they belittled; he picked it up and polished it off and showed that it was beautiful. He found a way to give beauty for ashes. That's just not very common.

Re: Shocked by online comments, reporter writes profile of hit-and-run victim

#76

Post by mattm » Sat, Oct 02, 2010, 6:38 PM UTC

BahUnfair wrote: post #37

sliverstorm wrote: post #13

The comment on the article reveals completely the lack of intelligence and elitism of the commenter. It may be wonderful to think that the people who man lower-end jobs are somehow less deserving than you, and somehow should be executed. But without those people filling those low-end jobs, our world would fall apart. No matter what you think of them, you need them, whether you realize it or not. And on the other hand…

As a student who worked in a fast food kitchen for 3 years, I can confirm that you can absolutely love a job that is bottom-of-the-pile.

Reminds me of the scene from the movie "American Beauty". After he gets laid off from his soul-sucking office job, Kevin Spacey's character applies at a fast-food burger joint saying "I want a job with the least amount of responsibility."

Re: Shocked by online comments, reporter writes profile of hit-and-run victim

#77

Post by 100k » Sat, Oct 02, 2010, 6:52 PM UTC

As a cyclist I am familiar with the unbelievable outpouring of bile in newspaper commets whenever a cyclist is killed.

Thank you to the St. Petersburg Times for publishing this article.

Re: Shocked by online comments, reporter writes profile of hit-and-run victim

#78

Post by 100k » Sat, Oct 02, 2010, 6:55 PM UTC

Tichy wrote: post #27

jrockway wrote: post #11

Police said that Mr. Smith was following bicycle safety recommendations such as wearing light-colored clothing, using reflectors and riding in the bicycle lane. This is a common misconception. Reflectors are worthless. Riding in the bike lane exposes you to great danger -- car doors flying open to the right, aggressive motorists passing too closely on the left. If you take the lane, you're out of the "door zone", and…

I wonder about the blinking things that seem to have become fashionable. I rarely drive cars, but when I did, I always found blinking lights extremely distracting. They make it hard for me to concentrate, to an extent where I wonder if it is still beneficial to the person wearing them. It's fine if a driver notices me, but I want them to still be able to concentrate. People's perceptions may vary here, for example I…

Blinking lights are used because they focus your attention on the changing light. So it is working as intended.

Re: Shocked by online comments, reporter writes profile of hit-and-run victim

#79

Post by vaksel » Sat, Oct 02, 2010, 7:05 PM UTC

TGJ wrote: post #3

How aggravating. "I'll go through 10 people before I find another like him" yet he will continue to pay the man 7.25 an hour. Everything you want out of an employee and nothing else and you can't pay the guy better than dirt cheap minimum wage and somehow lament at his death.

personally I found the manager's comment very condescending.

10 is just such a small number.

it's like "yeah this guy is VERY important, I'd have to interview like 2 whole people to find someone as "good" as him"

Re: Shocked by online comments, reporter writes profile of hit-and-run victim

#80

Post by jessriedel » Sat, Oct 02, 2010, 7:23 PM UTC

jrockway wrote: post #26

Confusion wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As for reflectors; they only work when there is a clear path from an illumination source to the reflector and back to your eye. Sometimes that happens, but more often than not, it doesn't. Firstly, reflectors are designed to deflect light into as many directions as possible. A small beam in becomes a wide beam out. And they succeed marvelously at that. Secondly, any reflector worn by any cyclist or pedestrian will re…

I don't drive. As a pedestrian, I've almost been hit by cyclists running red lights with reflectors. Since my eyes don't emit beams of light, I had no chance to see them until that last second. I assume any cars going through the intersection would have had the same problem, since the obstacle was to the side rather than directly in front of them. Reflectors do help make the cyclist more visible to overtaking traffic…

All true, but the fact of the matter is that most visibility-related deaths involving bikes are from cars that bikes, not bikes hitting or being hit by pedestrians or anything else without headlights. There are a few cases where pedestrians are killed by bicyclists, e,g. NYC messenger bikes, but this is small.