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One Island Grows 80% of the World’s Vanilla

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Re: One Island Grows 80% of the World’s Vanilla

#71
I paid $32 for a 32oz jug of vanilla extract off Amazon back in 2015.

I just checked and the same container is now $140! [1]

I’m going to have to start rationing!

Check out the price graph:

https://camelcamelcamel.com/Nielsen-Massey-Madagascar-Bourbo...

[1] - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001GE8N4Y/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_qJtl...

Re: One Island Grows 80% of the World’s Vanilla

#72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A "vanilla startup" is perhaps one of the most interesting ideas I've read in HN comments these past few weeks. If I may ask, are you from Madagascar or an expat? This is all quite new information to me so I am fascinated to learn more. Are there any sources you would recommend?

OT, but why are immigrants called expats when they're from anglophone nations?

This might get me some flak, but IMHO it's an unconscious double standard for many people and it's also not exclusive to the English language.

Germans do something similar, a German who moves to another country, even if it's Thailand for retirement or because life in Germany supposedly doesn't work for them, is called an "Auswanderer" and usually has a rather positive connotation of being "worldly" and well traveled.

Guess how many people call immigrants "Einwanderer" with a positive connotation? Pretty much nobody.

Some might argue there's an economic dimension to this, like German pensioners bringing their money to the other country, but that also doesn't always apply: There are plenty of Germans who are migrating because they have economic troubles in Germany and think they could work it better elsewhere.

As unbelievable as that might sound to most people outside of Germany, there are so many of them that VOX Germany has a whole Docu-Soap about Germans migrating to other countries, and it's been running for nearly 12 years with great success [0].

[0] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodbye_Deutschland!_Die_Auswa...

Re: One Island Grows 80% of the World’s Vanilla

#73
You can dive into more details about world trade in vanilla (who export/import it and to whom, how has the composition of exporters/importers changed over time etc) with this app:

http://atlas.cid.harvard.edu/explore/?country=undefined&part...

Disclaimer: I'm part of the team that made the app.

Re: One Island Grows 80% of the World’s Vanilla

#74

Pro tip: if you’re near the border or a Mexican grocery store, Mexican Vanilla is absurdly cheaper!

Supposedly a lot of Mexican-made vanilla extracts are cut with tonka beans that aren't FDA approved. But I bet making your own extract out of Mexican vanilla beans would be a great alternative.

Re: One Island Grows 80% of the World’s Vanilla

#75
post #52
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Madagascar has 2.1% unemployment and ~4.3% GDP growth rate which means doubling every 17 years though reduced by a 2.7% population growth rate. It's problems are more corruption and political than anything else.

> It's problems are more corruption and political than anything else. So it's different from any other country how?

If you read the history of Madagascar, you'll find a rolling disaster of civil war, extreme corruption, and barely functioning government systems with few consistently protected human rights. Some of that is finally, maybe, starting to turn in a positive direction with increased stability.

Transparency International ranks Madagascar at #155 on their corruption perception index. That's not a slightly bad ranking, that means they barely have a functioning system because it's so riddled with corruption. Their neighbors on the ranking are: Zimbabwe, Cambodia, Haiti, Myanmar, etc. Venezuela for reference is presently #169.

So that's one way they're (unfortunately) different.

Heritage ranks Madagascar #119 on their economic freedom index. They receive a 32/100 score on property rights, 19/100 on government integrity, 21/100 on judicial. Their summary on rule of law:

"Although the legal structure provides protections for private property rights and secured interests in property are recognized if not entirely enforced, the vast majority of farmers do not hold the official rights to their land. A lack of training, resources, and personnel hampers judicial effectiveness, and case backlogs are lengthy. Corruption is pervasive at all levels of government."

Re: One Island Grows 80% of the World’s Vanilla

#76
post #34

> it's one of the few regions with the right climate that is also poor enough to make laborious hand-pollination affordable It's not like I didn't know that this is how the world works, but this specific case is even more of a slap in the face. It's kinda fucked up to think that in the local specialty store merely a couple pods of vanilla (a few grams each) go for 6-7 dollars, but these folks live in poverty. But mor…

Just because there is cheap labor here does not mean they live in poverty; in fact they do not. The cost and standard of living is much lower so the wage is not as bad as you think. Sure they don't drive BMWs and don't get their coffee at Starbucks or have a $1000 iphone but they are far from living in "poverty"; since the definition of "poverty" is poorly constructed. In any case lets say we accept they live in pove…

> if you do buy, there is hope that the money will eventually improve things

Not with the current model of economic exploitation pursued by western firms. They will never get the money because the companies operating the plantations simply don't have to give it to them and Madagascar's ability to govern itself is completely compromised by outside money.

I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for the Nigerian people to receive the fruits of their labor as opposed to Shell, the corporation who's bribing the government to keep conditions as profitable as possible.

Re: One Island Grows 80% of the World’s Vanilla

#77
post #44
post #15

Keep in mind that 5/6ths of the vanillin used for flavoring is synthetic.

Imitation vanilla extract is also better in many cases as it can tolerate the high heat of baking where natural vanilla doesn't do as well.

Rule of thumb in these cases is to use natural vanilla for items that do not get baked. Such as ice creams or cake frosting. And use the artificial vanilla for baked goods. And even then I lean towards the natural stuff when I bake. Real vanilla has a complexity and depth to it, like a fine cigar, you can sit and savor it.

Re: One Island Grows 80% of the World’s Vanilla

#78
post #44
post #15

Keep in mind that 5/6ths of the vanillin used for flavoring is synthetic.

Imitation vanilla extract is also better in many cases as it can tolerate the high heat of baking where natural vanilla doesn't do as well.

Although technically correct, imitation is a deceptive term. Vanillin is the key flavoring agent found in vanilla. Synthesizing vanillin is not creating an imitation, it is synthesizing the exact same compound that exists in nature.

There is literally no point in growing vanilla to extract vanillin if vanillin can be synthesized artificially for much cheaper. Though if you're going for compounds other than vanillin that exist within the vanilla plant itself... that's a different story.

Re: One Island Grows 80% of the World’s Vanilla

#79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OT, but why are immigrants called expats when they're from anglophone nations?

This might get me some flak, but IMHO it's an unconscious double standard for many people and it's also not exclusive to the English language. Germans do something similar, a German who moves to another country, even if it's Thailand for retirement or because life in Germany supposedly doesn't work for them, is called an "Auswanderer" and usually has a rather positive connotation of being "worldly" and well traveled.…

Man, rolling nationality + expat/immigrant around is exposing some interesting biases.

For some nationalities, expat sounds more natural, for some immigrant. The British and French get to be expats even if they live in the US, the Germans only if they live outside the US. Canadians don't get to be expats or immigrants, they're just Canadians.

I wonder how broad or narrow these biases are; are these something I picked up from widespread American culture, or just personal linguistic biases?

Re: One Island Grows 80% of the World’s Vanilla

#80
post #12

I wonder why they can’t import the necessary bees and eliminate most of the manual labor from the process?

Even Mexico relies on hand pollination. The bees are not reliable enough for mass crops.

All of china relies on hand pollination.
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