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Women would lose $4.6B in earned tips if ‘tip stealing’ rule is finalized

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Re: Women would lose $4.6B in earned tips if ‘tip stealing’ rule is finalized

#71

> as long as they pay those workers at least the minimum wage Do US employeers not have to pay workers the minimum wage?

https://www.dol.gov/whd/state/tipped.htm Employers do not directly have to pay employees the minimum wage if the tips earned from the work add up to the minimum wage.

The fun part about this is that it’s averraged over an entire pay period. That means you can end up working many hours for a marginal wage of almost nothing, as long as there are a few good hours mixed in.

Re: Women would lose $4.6B in earned tips if ‘tip stealing’ rule is finalized

#72

There have been a number of studies that found that attractive people, especially attractive women, receive bigger tips from customers than other groups [1][2] in some contexts. The implications of this are perhaps just as interesting as women being the primary group disadvantaged by this proposed policy simply due to there being a higher proportion of women than men in tip-receiving jobs. One could argue that if thi…

If this is true, then it could also lead to a reshuffling of who becomes a tipped worker. People who are attractive are currently incentivized to become tipped workers because they are relatively well-compensated in a tipped job. If tips were to go away (or be pooled), this incentive would become much weaker. Perhaps attractive people would shift from tipped jobs into other jobs, where their attractiveness (be it physical or personality-based) are still effectively compensated. Pharmaceutical sales comes to mind.

Re: Women would lose $4.6B in earned tips if ‘tip stealing’ rule is finalized

#73
post #43
post #36

I hate tipping culture. When I was young and a waitress in college, I noticed horrible racism from waiters who treated minorities badly due to tipping stereotypes. Please just get rid of it for living wages.

Have you been in countries without tipping culture? Almost all of them have much worse service quality.

I lived in France for a year before moving to the US. Even though French waiters are notorious for having terrible service, I always received excellent service by being very polite to the waiters.

The idea that you are entitled to excellent service because you are paying is pernicious. If you want excellent service, treat people excellently.

Re: Women would lose $4.6B in earned tips if ‘tip stealing’ rule is finalized

#74

There have been a number of studies that found that attractive people, especially attractive women, receive bigger tips from customers than other groups [1][2] in some contexts. The implications of this are perhaps just as interesting as women being the primary group disadvantaged by this proposed policy simply due to there being a higher proportion of women than men in tip-receiving jobs. One could argue that if thi…

That's actually a pretty good argument. More equality. And since - as we know from this wonderful article - men are underepresented in this field it would help getting more men into these jobs. What a great win for diversity.

Re: Women would lose $4.6B in earned tips if ‘tip stealing’ rule is finalized

#75
post #43
post #36

I hate tipping culture. When I was young and a waitress in college, I noticed horrible racism from waiters who treated minorities badly due to tipping stereotypes. Please just get rid of it for living wages.

Have you been in countries without tipping culture? Almost all of them have much worse service quality.

This is entirely false. I've even lived abroad in a non-tipping culture and never had bad service in any non-tipping country.

Even if it were true cultural expectations would be the major deciding factor of how employees act.

Re: Women would lose $4.6B in earned tips if ‘tip stealing’ rule is finalized

#76
post #43
post #36

I hate tipping culture. When I was young and a waitress in college, I noticed horrible racism from waiters who treated minorities badly due to tipping stereotypes. Please just get rid of it for living wages.

Have you been in countries without tipping culture? Almost all of them have much worse service quality.

I don't remember any time that I've had bad service anywhere in the world. I'm sure I have, but I don't collect that memory and press 'save'. People who have strong opinions on service are too uptight

Re: Women would lose $4.6B in earned tips if ‘tip stealing’ rule is finalized

#77
post #73
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you been in countries without tipping culture? Almost all of them have much worse service quality.

I lived in France for a year before moving to the US. Even though French waiters are notorious for having terrible service, I always received excellent service by being very polite to the waiters. The idea that you are entitled to excellent service because you are paying is pernicious. If you want excellent service, treat people excellently.

Excellent service should be the default, and you only lose it by being an asshole; in other words, I'm not paying for the privilege of having to work extra hard just to get decent service.

Literally the only thing you are paying for is service (the services of cooking and waiting on you), otherwise you'd be eating at home.

Re: Women would lose $4.6B in earned tips if ‘tip stealing’ rule is finalized

#78

There have been a number of studies that found that attractive people, especially attractive women, receive bigger tips from customers than other groups [1][2] in some contexts. The implications of this are perhaps just as interesting as women being the primary group disadvantaged by this proposed policy simply due to there being a higher proportion of women than men in tip-receiving jobs. One could argue that if thi…

So, non-attractive persons are already discriminated by customers and this could level playing field and compensate for what nature messed up. Why is it bad?

Re: Women would lose $4.6B in earned tips if ‘tip stealing’ rule is finalized

#79

"DOL has masked the fact that this rule would be a windfall to restaurant owners and other employers—out of the pockets of tipped workers—by making it sound as if this rule is about tip pooling." Sounds like this one must've been written by lobbyists? Assuming this article is accurate, why would this seem like a good rule to get rid of?

Here's an idea -- why don't we let business owners decide how to pay their people? If waiters don't like tip pooling, then they can work for another restaurant that doesn't do it. It's ridiculous that the government even gets involved in this -- assuming minimum wage is met and taxes are being properly paid -- what business is it of the government how restaurants operate (beyond health and safety obviously.) Does the…

Most employers (especially of cheap labor) will take advantage of their employees to the fullest extent of the law. If stealing tips is legal, there won't be "another restaurant that doesn't do it."

We are talking about owners being legally allowed to pocket money that was given directly to their employees to keep. How can you possibly think actual theft is a "free market" issue?

Re: Women would lose $4.6B in earned tips if ‘tip stealing’ rule is finalized

#80
post #8

So how, as a customer, could I actively tip my wait staff and not the establishment? Will this lead to the abolishment of tipping in general?

The Libertarians had a movement a little while ago where they would "tip" $0 to their waitress/waiter and then "gift" them the amount they'd want to tip (which happens to be tax free)by writing their intentions as such on a receipt.

No idea if this actually works legally, or logistically, but its an option

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