Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

US Senate passes sweeping tax overhaul bill

bbc.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 123 posts

Re: US Senate passes sweeping tax overhaul bill

#71

Post by InclinedPlane »

leifaffles wrote: post #63

Here's a sampling of the top comments in this thread: * "protesting is virtually impossible" * "The law making process is so clearly broken" * "society will be warped into some dysfunctional dystopian end game" * "the US doesn't have enough accountability for its leaders" * "digital technology delivering us a single party state" * "Dystopian police state here we come" * "protest has been criminalized. The people who…

Your critique is worthless. There is a huge difference between "fair" and legally conducted. Yes, this bill seems to have been passed in accordance with the laws of the United States of America by duly elected officials. That does not make it good or moral, or fair.

America has committed genocide, it has tolerated and supported slavery, it has enacted policies in support of eugenics. All legal, all duly enacted by elected representation in Congress and the presidency. But in each of those cases it was thoroughly right and proper for American citizens to criticize the wrongful acts of the government and to call, vociferously, for a change of policy.

The same is true today. And it is in keeping with the foundational constitutional freedoms of this republic (the right to free speech, to petition the government for the redress of grievances, the right to assembly) to do so now.

Re: US Senate passes sweeping tax overhaul bill

#72

Post by anigbrowl »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #47
adamnemecek wrote: post #9

One of the problems of US is the fact that protesting is virtually impossible. Unless there are 1,000,000 people in the streets of DC for two weeks, no one will care. Protesting in your city has little impact on the federal level. Also The general lack of public spaces makes it hard. And the fact that the police cracks down pretty hard on things after the first display of some sort of "disobedience". Look at the phot…

> protesting is virtually impossible I call my state and federal representatives and have built rapport with their SLAs. I find my input valued and well considered. My district is a densely-populated one in Manhattan. Work brings me to the Bay Area, where I also conference with representatives. I am usually the only person calling or caring about most technical issues. The problem isn't imagined bans on peaceful prot…

As an activist (both on the street and in legislative fora) that's garbage. People absolutely work on all phases of the democratic process here.

Re: US Senate passes sweeping tax overhaul bill

#73

Post by anigbrowl »

adamnemecek wrote: post #60
anigbrowl wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is merit to this idea and it has the potential to be highly effective but also highly destablizing, in both positive and negative ways.

Some destabilization is possibly needed. Like you have to raise to rebuild.

I quite agree but if I were to go into detail about my thoughts on this it would quickly be flagged into invisibility :)

You're welcome to drop me a line.

Re: US Senate passes sweeping tax overhaul bill

#74

Post by danieltillett »

uniacid wrote: post #66
danieltillett wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sort of thing has been used for the last 40 years and its effectiveness is drawing to an end. Nobody believes anything the oligarchs say anymore. You can only pull on a rubber band for so long before it eventually breaks and smacks you in the face. The band is now very, very tight. The next economic downturn risks unleashing something that no amount of money can control.

> The next economic downturn risks unleashing something that no amount of money can control. More like we'll be in such debt that no amount of tax increase will save us for decades? if you think some how people are going to suddenly revolt against the system then I wouldn't hold my breath... I didn't see anyone with pitchforks and torches back during 2008, I sure don't expect anything now from this lazy and increasin…

History if full of rich people who thought they were safe right up until the moment they were being strung up or their heads cut off. Nothing has changed about human nature in the last few hundred years.

Re: US Senate passes sweeping tax overhaul bill

#76

Post by leifaffles »

InclinedPlane wrote: post #71
leifaffles wrote: post #63

Here's a sampling of the top comments in this thread: * "protesting is virtually impossible" * "The law making process is so clearly broken" * "society will be warped into some dysfunctional dystopian end game" * "the US doesn't have enough accountability for its leaders" * "digital technology delivering us a single party state" * "Dystopian police state here we come" * "protest has been criminalized. The people who…

Your critique is worthless. There is a huge difference between "fair" and legally conducted. Yes, this bill seems to have been passed in accordance with the laws of the United States of America by duly elected officials. That does not make it good or moral, or fair. America has committed genocide, it has tolerated and supported slavery, it has enacted policies in support of eugenics. All legal, all duly enacted by el…

This is dumb.

Of course people can protest. Nobody's questioning that.

However, this victim mindset where everything process is "unfair" and elections are "fundamentally broken" is not healthy.

Re: US Senate passes sweeping tax overhaul bill

#77

Post by InclinedPlane »

hellofunk wrote: post #75

I'm terribly surprised that McCain went along with this legislative process. No one had time to read the bill - or even have the bill itself - when the votes were cast. Just makes no sense. What kind of country behaves that way?

A failed one.

Re: US Senate passes sweeping tax overhaul bill

#78

Post by InclinedPlane »

leifaffles wrote: post #76
InclinedPlane wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your critique is worthless. There is a huge difference between "fair" and legally conducted. Yes, this bill seems to have been passed in accordance with the laws of the United States of America by duly elected officials. That does not make it good or moral, or fair. America has committed genocide, it has tolerated and supported slavery, it has enacted policies in support of eugenics. All legal, all duly enacted by el…

This is dumb. Of course people can protest. Nobody's questioning that. However, this victim mindset where everything process is "unfair" and elections are "fundamentally broken" is not healthy.

You. Just. Questioned it. That's what you posted. Telling people not to criticize and somehow just wait around stewing in silence until election day is idiotic.

To boot, the remainder of your critique is also off base. The electoral college is broken. And redistricting, gerrymandering, and voter suppression are incredibly "unfair". These aren't petty quibbles, these are truths. Federal courts have established that voter suppression has been happening, that illegal gerrymandering has been happening. Fantasising that these assaults at the integrity of our elections and representation are somehow inconsequential is either ignorance bordering on disastrous negligence in the stewardship of American democracy or simply villainy. Which describes your position?

Re: US Senate passes sweeping tax overhaul bill

#79

Post by InclinedPlane »

leifaffles wrote: post #48
shams93 wrote: post #40

The Republicans have been so skilled at digital jerrymandering that we have digital technology delivering us a single party state. Only mass voter outrage will be enough to overcome a decade of very effective data driven jerrymandering.

It's actually spelled "gerrymandering". You might have learned that by now if you weren't so busy spreading dumb conspiracy theories on the internet.

https://www.texastribune.org/2017/08/15/federal-court-invali...

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/05/north-c...

https://www.salon.com/2016/11/22/unconstitutional-gerrymande...

Are you really that ignorant or are you complicit with these crimes?

Re: US Senate passes sweeping tax overhaul bill

#80

Post by WillPostForFood »

mcny wrote: post #69
WillPostForFood wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the main reasons large corporations pay no tax is that they hide the money in other countries with lower corporate tax rates. You can argue that it is a race to the bottom, or ineffective for other reasons, but the lower corporate tax rate is an attempt to deal with the issue, and get a cut of that money, albeit at a lower rate.

I think we need to talk about this in more detail. Let's say some company like Google has income all across the world. People click ads in Germany. Some German company pays Google €1. Google doesn't want to pay US taxes on it. It "parks" this money in Germany. I think that's different from let's say some American company has some income $100 from another American company. But we set up a fake company in a tax free co…

The New York times walks through an example using Apple and iTunes. It is much worse than example of parking a Euro in the country it was earned.

For instance, one of Apple’s subsidiaries in Luxembourg, named iTunes S.à r.l., has just a few dozen employees, according to corporate documents filed in that nation and a current executive. The only indication of the subsidiary’s presence outside is a letterbox with a lopsided slip of paper reading “ITUNES SARL.”

Luxembourg has just half a million residents. But when customers across Europe, Africa or the Middle East — and potentially elsewhere — download a song, television show or app, the sale is recorded in this small country, according to current and former executives. In 2011, iTunes S.à r.l.’s revenue exceeded $1 billion, according to an Apple executive, representing roughly 20 percent of iTunes’s worldwide sales.

The advantages of Luxembourg are simple, say Apple executives. The country has promised to tax the payments collected by Apple and numerous other tech corporations at low rates if they route transactions through Luxembourg. Taxes that would have otherwise gone to the governments of Britain, France, the United States and dozens of other nations go to Luxembourg instead, at discounted rates.

And that's the simple part, read the "Double Irish" section, which is an even worse tactic.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/29/business/apples-tax-strate...

Post reply on HN