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Is billionaire VC Peter Thiel trying to break up Google?

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Re: Is billionaire VC Peter Thiel trying to break up Google?

#71

Post by ben_w »

factsaresacred wrote: post #53
ben_w wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is rather less clear-cut than you claim: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/13/magazine/13wwln_idealab.ht... > Fearon and Laitin looked at 127 civil wars from 1945 to 1999, most often in sub-Saharan Africa and Asia. They found that regardless of how ethnically mixed a country is, the likelihood of a civil war decreases as countries get richer. The richest states are almost impervious to civil strife, no matter how mul…

> It is rather less clear-cut than you claim My friend, my entire point was to illustrate that it is not "clear-cut". Far from it. We're in agreement ;)

If you wanted to illustrate that, you should not have written “shown (a priori and a posteriori) that multiculturalism and ethnic diversity erodes trust and causes social strive.”

Re: Is billionaire VC Peter Thiel trying to break up Google?

#72

Post by tiles »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #49
dguaraglia wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I'm pretty sure he's referring to the whole Gawker vs. Hulk Hogan trial thing, which was one of the biggest attacks on freedom of the press in recent history. Whether you believe Gawker deserved it or not, he used Terry Bollea (Hogan) as a prop to push his own agenda.

No, I'm pretty sure he's referring to the whole Gawker vs. Hulk Hogan trial thing, which was one of the biggest attacks on freedom of the press in recent history. How is what Thiel did any different from what a nonprofit like the EFF or ACLU does every day? They identify legal cases they feel are important, and offer material assistance to the side they agree with. (Not attempting to defend either Thiel or Gawker, ju…

Well, EFF or ACLU support a broad number of cases every year that align with their mission statements. Thiel's involvement may be similarly principled and nondiscriminatory, but since his involvement was just on one case against an entity he dislikes, it is much easier to believe he just supported whatever legal action that let him use the judicial system as a weapon against them.

Re: Is billionaire VC Peter Thiel trying to break up Google?

#73

Post by vertex-four »

factsaresacred wrote: post #50
VeejayRampay wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should consider reading about the rest of the research on the matter, or the words of Putnam himself: http://www.chronicle.com/blogs/percolator/robert-putnam-says... One study isn't enough in isolation. Reproduction, vetting, counter-studies, discussion and scientific engagement is what matters on the long run.

I have read that. He concedes the study is valid and the problems real and difficult. Then he adds his own opinion that nevertheless it's worth it. > In the short term, he writes, there are clearly challenges, but over the long haul, he argues that diversity has a range of benefits for a society, and that the fragmentation and distrust can be overcome. It’s not an easy process, but in the end it’s “well worth the eff…

> I mean, this stuff is intuitive for anybody with a sense of history.

Sure it's intuitive - that so long as "diverse" populations in a society have no power, the majority in power can happily sit and ignore the societal problems said people are facing. Once said populations actually get into a position where they have some degree of power, the majority will do anything they can to keep them down in an attempt to keep their artificially inflated standing in society.

The solution to that is, in my opinion, pretty obviously not to take the view that giving people the power to do something about the structural problems that they face in society is a bad thing.

Re: Is billionaire VC Peter Thiel trying to break up Google?

#74

Post by dx034 »

ben_w wrote: post #61
bufferoverflow wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Diversity of ideas (and good ideas specifically) comes from education, reading a lot, listening to smart people, thinking, and maybe a bit from genetics. You're concentrating too much on the skin color. We should push smart people, we should create the culture of smart, so people want to become smart.

It also comes from different life experiences. If I’d made a period product based soley on what I’d been taught at school about women, it would definitely have been a business failure (as I found out by talking to a woman about my idea). You don’t have any way to know how different somebody’s life experiences have been until you ask them, but they’re more likely to be different if the sample set includes more gender,…

Yes but you can hire a lot of people with different skin color that all went to the same university, grew up in the same rich neighbourhood and will have no diversity of ideas.

A group of people with one gender and color of skin from the same country (to be less US centric) will often have little diversity in their ideas. But just by making sure to have x% of non-white employees you won't necessarily reach that either.

Re: Is billionaire VC Peter Thiel trying to break up Google?

#75

Post by echaozh »

retailbuyout wrote: post #39
bufferoverflow wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's quite clear about multiculturalism and diversity - he is criticizing the premise that pushing the people "who look different, but think alike" is not as productive as progressives think. He wants the diversity of ideas, regardless of ethnicities and skin colors.

I mean, if you think you can get max diversity of ideas without also pulling people from different cultures, you’ve been around way too many white men.

Multiculturalism should be the means, but not the ends. The goal is to find max diversity of ideas, if you can achieve that by pulling in people from different cultures, fine, just don't make it your goal. After all, people from different cultures can think the same.

Re: Is billionaire VC Peter Thiel trying to break up Google?

#76

Post by dx034 »

retailbuyout wrote: post #39
bufferoverflow wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's quite clear about multiculturalism and diversity - he is criticizing the premise that pushing the people "who look different, but think alike" is not as productive as progressives think. He wants the diversity of ideas, regardless of ethnicities and skin colors.

I mean, if you think you can get max diversity of ideas without also pulling people from different cultures, you’ve been around way too many white men.

The crux is that a different color of skin doesn't mean different culture. Esp. those companies hiring from a selected set of universities will often come to realise that most employees think alike, independent of where their parents or grandparents were from.

I'd go as far and say that you can get more diversity with an all-white/all-black (or any other color of skin) workforce that come from very different backgrounds and went to a wide set of universities than having a perfectly mixed (as in skin color) set of employees that all grew up in the Bay Area and went to Stanford.

Re: Is billionaire VC Peter Thiel trying to break up Google?

#77

Post by tiles »

mrschwabe wrote: post #32
CalChris wrote: post #2

I don't remember hearing that he left but Thiel isn't on the YC partner list on either Crunchbase or YC itself. https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/y-combinator/current... http://www.ycombinator.com/people/

Maybe he was kicked off the board for 'wrong think' - he certainly was chastised by members of Facebook's board for endorsing & contributing to Donald Trump's Presidential campaign (Trump's victory vindication of said endorsement & contribution). While Thiel was endorsing/investing who would ultimately win - YC's President did the opposite. While Theil's endorsement/investment in Trump was based on principal - I don'…

> a prominent tech company claiming to invest in 'hackers' endorsing a candidate who had just been exposed as technically incompetent

Her opponent is wildly incompetent with technology. I'm not sure why you latch onto this idea that Clinton was uniquely bad at IT. Googling comes up with exactly two photos of Trump ever using a computer. He doesn't even have a web browser on his phone [according to this NYT article](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/01/us/politics/john-kelly-tr...).

Re: Is billionaire VC Peter Thiel trying to break up Google?

#78

Post by millstone »

jpttsn wrote: post #43
dguaraglia wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Weird, because in Gawker's case, he didn't have a case for libel or slander. They outed him as gay. I considered their actions despicable, but they didn't lie and that's why he didn't have a case. And that's why he had to use Hulk Hogan to exact revenge, which goes to show that a single guy with too much money can essentially reign unchecked in today's America. That's not good, no matter if you happen to agree politi…

In your ideal society, you would rather see Hogan lose in court for lack of money?

Ideally all cases would be decided on their merits irrespective of funding. But if Hogan had lost, do you think Thiel would have stopped?

What is frightening about Thiel’s involvement case is the playbook: destroy media companies that have been critical or embarrassed you, by secretly funding any and all lawsuits against them, even if frivolous.

Re: Is billionaire VC Peter Thiel trying to break up Google?

#79

Post by ben_w »

dx034 wrote: post #74
ben_w wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also comes from different life experiences. If I’d made a period product based soley on what I’d been taught at school about women, it would definitely have been a business failure (as I found out by talking to a woman about my idea). You don’t have any way to know how different somebody’s life experiences have been until you ask them, but they’re more likely to be different if the sample set includes more gender,…

Yes but you can hire a lot of people with different skin color that all went to the same university, grew up in the same rich neighbourhood and will have no diversity of ideas. A group of people with one gender and color of skin from the same country (to be less US centric) will often have little diversity in their ideas. But just by making sure to have x% of non-white employees you won't necessarily reach that eithe…

You can still end up with a single way of thinking, but it’s less likely. Think of it as rolling D20s instead of D6s, where each number represents a given mode of thought.

Re: Is billionaire VC Peter Thiel trying to break up Google?

#80

Post by dx034 »

icebraining wrote: post #12
docdeek wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Free speech --> Sue a magazine Free speech doesn’t mean freedom from being held to account for your speech.

That's exactly what it means; it's freedom from being held to account by at least some groups. Which ones being a matter of debate.

I guess it depends which country you're in. For many Europeans, free speech means that you're allowed to voice your opinion but are forbidden from insulting people just for the sake of insulting them. For journalists, they are allowed to print what they think but not knowingly lie or defame people with untrue stories.

Free speech isn't absolute, you somewhere have to draw a line determining where free speech ends and the protection of an individual's rights begin.

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