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Is billionaire VC Peter Thiel trying to break up Google?

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Re: Is billionaire VC Peter Thiel trying to break up Google?

#41

Post by VeejayRampay »

factsaresacred wrote: post #31
sdoering wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And your unquoted "proof" is gathered exactly how? You state something as a standing fact without giving us the ability to check the stated facts (and underlying methodologies) ourselves. So it seems to me that people using arguing strategies like you just seem to have done are eroding "trust" in a rational discussion more then anything else. Tactics like these are well below what I personally would classify as honor…

Calm down. I'll happily provide proof, I simply didn't want to overload my initial response with quotes and links: > Harvard political scientist Robert Putnam -- famous for "Bowling Alone," his 2000 book on declining civic engagement -- has found that the greater the diversity in a community, the fewer people vote and the less they volunteer, the less they give to charity and work on community projects. In the most d…

You should consider reading about the rest of the research on the matter, or the words of Putnam himself:

http://www.chronicle.com/blogs/percolator/robert-putnam-says...

One study isn't enough in isolation. Reproduction, vetting, counter-studies, discussion and scientific engagement is what matters on the long run.

Re: Is billionaire VC Peter Thiel trying to break up Google?

#42

Post by c3534l »

bufferoverflow wrote: post #16
burnte wrote: post #6

I think we've seen Thiel do this before, indirectly fund opposition to organizations he doesn't like when he can't attack them directly. He's also funded lots of politicians that work quite hard to restrict rights at every level of government, including, frankly, that are rather adamantly against equal rights for gay people. He's a great representation that some people will align themselves with anyone to further the…

He's quite clear about multiculturalism and diversity - he is criticizing the premise that pushing the people "who look different, but think alike" is not as productive as progressives think. He wants the diversity of ideas, regardless of ethnicities and skin colors.

Yeah, I'm not necessarily a fan of Thiel, but there's an unjustified hysteria growing about him that seems like the left's version of Soros hysteria. Any time I see Thiel mentioned, people seem to want to twist his words into a generic evil regressive.

Re: Is billionaire VC Peter Thiel trying to break up Google?

#43

Post by jpttsn »

dguaraglia wrote: post #26
bufferoverflow wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's not. Freedom of speech doesn't cover slander/libel. Freedom of speech means government can't put you in a cage for your expressed ideas (with few exceptions, like yelling fire in a theater).

Weird, because in Gawker's case, he didn't have a case for libel or slander. They outed him as gay. I considered their actions despicable, but they didn't lie and that's why he didn't have a case. And that's why he had to use Hulk Hogan to exact revenge, which goes to show that a single guy with too much money can essentially reign unchecked in today's America. That's not good, no matter if you happen to agree politi…

In your ideal society, you would rather see Hogan lose in court for lack of money?

Re: Is billionaire VC Peter Thiel trying to break up Google?

#45

Post by npstr »

retailbuyout wrote: post #39
bufferoverflow wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's quite clear about multiculturalism and diversity - he is criticizing the premise that pushing the people "who look different, but think alike" is not as productive as progressives think. He wants the diversity of ideas, regardless of ethnicities and skin colors.

I mean, if you think you can get max diversity of ideas without also pulling people from different cultures, you’ve been around way too many white men.

What a sexist and racist comment.

Re: Is billionaire VC Peter Thiel trying to break up Google?

#46

Post by mrschwabe »

burnte wrote: post #24
mrschwabe wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems clear you are eluding to his endorsement and $1m contribution to the Trump campaign. We share different views - I am happy to disagree with you because I think Peter Thiel is to be commended for conducting business in line with his own philosophical & political views: this is perhaps the entire goal of business. From my perspective, he clearly sees the need for change in this world and works diligently to see t…

I'm referring to the Gawker case, although I think his political donations are harmful to the nation as a whole, too. Also, you meant alluding, not eluding. :)

Thanks for clarifying. And for the grammar correction.

Just looked up both definitions... wow, I've been using the word 'eluding' incorrectly for years haha! Duly noted :)

Re: Is billionaire VC Peter Thiel trying to break up Google?

#47

Post by bufferoverflow »

retailbuyout wrote: post #39
bufferoverflow wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's quite clear about multiculturalism and diversity - he is criticizing the premise that pushing the people "who look different, but think alike" is not as productive as progressives think. He wants the diversity of ideas, regardless of ethnicities and skin colors.

I mean, if you think you can get max diversity of ideas without also pulling people from different cultures, you’ve been around way too many white men.

Diversity of ideas (and good ideas specifically) comes from education, reading a lot, listening to smart people, thinking, and maybe a bit from genetics.

You're concentrating too much on the skin color. We should push smart people, we should create the culture of smart, so people want to become smart.

Re: Is billionaire VC Peter Thiel trying to break up Google?

#48

Post by ben_w »

factsaresacred wrote: post #19
burnte wrote: post #6

I think we've seen Thiel do this before, indirectly fund opposition to organizations he doesn't like when he can't attack them directly. He's also funded lots of politicians that work quite hard to restrict rights at every level of government, including, frankly, that are rather adamantly against equal rights for gay people. He's a great representation that some people will align themselves with anyone to further the…

> the "dangers" of multiculturalism, gender and ethnic diversity I don't know if "dangers" is your word or his, but it's been shown (a priori and a posteriori) that multiculturalism and ethnic diversity erodes trust and causes social strive. This is opposed to cultural pluralism, where a dominant culture exists and tolerates additional values that don't erode or threaten the dominant culture. The reason I comment is…

It is rather less clear-cut than you claim: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/13/magazine/13wwln_idealab.ht...

> Fearon and Laitin looked at 127 civil wars from 1945 to 1999, most often in sub-Saharan Africa and Asia. They found that regardless of how ethnically mixed a country is, the likelihood of a civil war decreases as countries get richer. The richest states are almost impervious to civil strife, no matter how multiethnic they might be — think for instance of Belgium, where Flemings and Walloons show almost no inclination to fight it out. And while the poorest countries have the most civil wars, Fearon and Laitin discovered that, oddly enough, it is actually the more homogeneous ones among them that are most likely to descend into violence.

Even the following paragraph, where another researcher challenges the Fearon and Laitin study and claims mixed groups are more prone to conflict, says that effect diminishes when the single largest group is less than 45% of the population.

(I’ve been looking at the risks of civil war recently because Brexit, on that risk to the UK I have no firm conclusions).

Re: Is billionaire VC Peter Thiel trying to break up Google?

#49

Post by CamperBob2 »

dguaraglia wrote: post #18
mrschwabe wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems clear you are eluding to his endorsement and $1m contribution to the Trump campaign. We share different views - I am happy to disagree with you because I think Peter Thiel is to be commended for conducting business in line with his own philosophical & political views: this is perhaps the entire goal of business. From my perspective, he clearly sees the need for change in this world and works diligently to see t…

No, I'm pretty sure he's referring to the whole Gawker vs. Hulk Hogan trial thing, which was one of the biggest attacks on freedom of the press in recent history. Whether you believe Gawker deserved it or not, he used Terry Bollea (Hogan) as a prop to push his own agenda.

No, I'm pretty sure he's referring to the whole Gawker vs. Hulk Hogan trial thing, which was one of the biggest attacks on freedom of the press in recent history.

How is what Thiel did any different from what a nonprofit like the EFF or ACLU does every day? They identify legal cases they feel are important, and offer material assistance to the side they agree with.

(Not attempting to defend either Thiel or Gawker, just honestly curious.)

Re: Is billionaire VC Peter Thiel trying to break up Google?

#50

Post by factsaresacred »

VeejayRampay wrote: post #41
factsaresacred wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calm down. I'll happily provide proof, I simply didn't want to overload my initial response with quotes and links: > Harvard political scientist Robert Putnam -- famous for "Bowling Alone," his 2000 book on declining civic engagement -- has found that the greater the diversity in a community, the fewer people vote and the less they volunteer, the less they give to charity and work on community projects. In the most d…

You should consider reading about the rest of the research on the matter, or the words of Putnam himself: http://www.chronicle.com/blogs/percolator/robert-putnam-says... One study isn't enough in isolation. Reproduction, vetting, counter-studies, discussion and scientific engagement is what matters on the long run.

I have read that. He concedes the study is valid and the problems real and difficult. Then he adds his own opinion that nevertheless it's worth it.

> In the short term, he writes, there are clearly challenges, but over the long haul, he argues that diversity has a range of benefits for a society, and that the fragmentation and distrust can be overcome. It’s not an easy process, but in the end it’s “well worth the effort.”

“well worth the effort”. That's pretty subjective. I'm sure many would like to avoid "fragmentation and distrust" in the first place.

> One study isn't enough by itself.

There are many similar studies:

"A higher degree of ethnic diversity is associated with a higher incidence of civil conflict" - https://www.cgdev.org/doc/events/02.09.07/Matuszeski-JMP.pdf

I mean, this stuff is intuitive for anybody with a sense of history.

To be clear I'm not arguing against diversity per se. I raise these points to encourage us (as a society) to discuss - and not emote - these issues honestly.

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