Live data from Hacker News

Dietary Carbohydrates Impair Healthspan and Promote Mortality

cell.com

71–80 of 119 posts

Re: Dietary Carbohydrates Impair Healthspan and Promote Mortality

#71

This study is highly flawed: https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/2017/09/08/pure... Be careful making any changes to your diet based on these "findings". The healthiest populations on the planet eat plenty of carbs, but not refined sugars.

Even without the data quality issues, there are obvious uncontrolled confounding factors. I don't understand how a real scientist can title this study "Dietary Carbohydrates Impair . . ." when the finding is actually "Dietary Carbohydrates Are Associated With Impaired . . ." Clear evidence that statistical training (or perhaps just incentives) for scientists remains insufficient.

What's really surprising is how many people on here are like, "of course, ketogenic diets!" Where is all the skepticism that is so vividly on display when discussing the latest Google or Facebook product announcement?

Re: Dietary Carbohydrates Impair Healthspan and Promote Mortality

#72
post #5

Does it bother anyone that this study is intentionally misleading by masking the fact that the carbohydrates tested were refined sugars?

as I mentioned in my comment, any study that lumps together all of one macronutrient into one group and then attempts to reach conclusions based on that grouping has very little understanding of nutrition.

Re: Dietary Carbohydrates Impair Healthspan and Promote Mortality

#73
post #9

Can anyone provide a TLDR on what exactly the conclusion of this article is? My experience with a low-carb diet is quite similar to that of @whalesalad, and it remains much more effective than any other diet or a strict exercise regimen.

the TLDR is that this study tells us nothing about what diet is good for longevity.

See my comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15465516

Re: Dietary Carbohydrates Impair Healthspan and Promote Mortality

#74

This study is highly flawed: https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/2017/09/08/pure... Be careful making any changes to your diet based on these "findings". The healthiest populations on the planet eat plenty of carbs, but not refined sugars.

Even without the data quality issues, there are obvious uncontrolled confounding factors. I don't understand how a real scientist can title this study "Dietary Carbohydrates Impair . . ." when the finding is actually "Dietary Carbohydrates Are Associated With Impaired . . ." Clear evidence that statistical training (or perhaps just incentives) for scientists remains insufficient. What's really surprising is how many…

Because they explain the causal link. See the paragraph beginning with, "Most dietary carbohydrates relevant for human nutrition contain the monosaccharide D-glucose".

Re: Dietary Carbohydrates Impair Healthspan and Promote Mortality

#75

This study is highly flawed: https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/2017/09/08/pure... Be careful making any changes to your diet based on these "findings". The healthiest populations on the planet eat plenty of carbs, but not refined sugars.

I always wonder, when nutrition studies are usually so poorly designed and controlled, why people don't just look at the blue zone diets for nutrition guidance.

Yep. We have multiple examples of multigenerational communities that regularly live to 100+. Poorly done studies like this one only serve to obscure the truth about what we should be eating for longevity.

Re: Dietary Carbohydrates Impair Healthspan and Promote Mortality

#76
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

„no carbohydrate intake at all for half a day before“ no way your body was in ketosis.

It takes about a week of < 20g/carbs a day for the body to go into ketosis. This is born out by buying keto strips and testing your urine.

I can achieve 'dark purple' on strips in two to three days without drastic dietary or exercise extremes. This is one of my biggest sticking points with articles that make generalizations about body functions. There are always outlying examples and exceptions.

Re: Dietary Carbohydrates Impair Healthspan and Promote Mortality

#77

I’ve been living a ketogenic lifestyle for a few years now. I go in and out once and a while but seeing the “fat is bad” theory thrown out the window with research like this makes it easier to remain committed. The trouble comes with the way society has been conditioned to have carbs with every meal. Like 90% of the food my peer group eats are surrounded in carbs. Even for a company-wide lunch in the office: the go-t…

Reading through all the comments and this one stood out. I am currently a 'reluctant vegetarian' for health reasons of course (bad choices were made during my younger years and now I am so paying for it). However. In-N-Out would be allowed were I near one. I like to eat grass (grass like veggies). Cows eat grass. I will eat the cow that ate the grass at In-N-Out burger. /shrug. Sounds legit to me. - I'd also have a 'healthy shake' there as well. I remember their adverts that mimic'd/mocked the shake diets and it still makes me chuckle.

Re: Dietary Carbohydrates Impair Healthspan and Promote Mortality

#78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even without the data quality issues, there are obvious uncontrolled confounding factors. I don't understand how a real scientist can title this study "Dietary Carbohydrates Impair . . ." when the finding is actually "Dietary Carbohydrates Are Associated With Impaired . . ." Clear evidence that statistical training (or perhaps just incentives) for scientists remains insufficient. What's really surprising is how many…

Because they explain the causal link. See the paragraph beginning with, "Most dietary carbohydrates relevant for human nutrition contain the monosaccharide D-glucose".

Countless studies show that consuming refined sugars alone has very different effects on the body than consuming complex carbohydrates along with the fiber found in natural foods. This is like saying that all protein contains glutamate so there's no difference between eating a steak or a tablespoon full of refined MSG.

Re: Dietary Carbohydrates Impair Healthspan and Promote Mortality

#79

I’ve been living a ketogenic lifestyle for a few years now. I go in and out once and a while but seeing the “fat is bad” theory thrown out the window with research like this makes it easier to remain committed. The trouble comes with the way society has been conditioned to have carbs with every meal. Like 90% of the food my peer group eats are surrounded in carbs. Even for a company-wide lunch in the office: the go-t…

I've been on keto (on and off) about 50% of the time in the past 3 years. The worst part is not being able to eat/drink at social events, and dehydration. The best part is never feeling hungry, stable energy levels throughout the day, and not needing to sleep as much. I also tend to binge a lot when off keto...

Oddly enough, every time I practice Keto, I am almost the exact opposite; always hungry, cruddy energy but I sleep like a rock. On low(ish) fat and high carb; easily satiated, decent energy, sleep like a baby (awake a lot but no screaming or poop). With the above explained, I have not tried A Balanced Diet - perhaps to get the positives of both modes and mitigate or lessen the negatives. Honestly this is the first time, while I am typing this, that I've come up with that angle for myself.

Re: Dietary Carbohydrates Impair Healthspan and Promote Mortality

#80

I’ve been living a ketogenic lifestyle for a few years now. I go in and out once and a while but seeing the “fat is bad” theory thrown out the window with research like this makes it easier to remain committed. The trouble comes with the way society has been conditioned to have carbs with every meal. Like 90% of the food my peer group eats are surrounded in carbs. Even for a company-wide lunch in the office: the go-t…

You hit the nail on the head for exactly why I couldn't stick with a ketogenic diet. It became too much of a burden on the people I was with to feed just me because everything they wanted was stuff like tacos, pizza, rice dishes, fried dishes, etc. I have an unresearched (by me) theory that the reason we have so many carb heavy diets is due to the fact that carbs are such cheap calories. They were good for surviving…

Americans have a tendency to go to extremes. The normal American diet is way too high in carbs, and so when we try to do something about that we go way farther in the other direction than we have to. We aim for very low carbs, and that ends up being a pain, and we revert back to our default ridiculously high carb diet.

It doesn't have to be so binary.

Try aiming for a modest level of carbs. I aimed for 40% of calories from carbs, and ended up around 30-35%. That was a significant reduction, but nowhere near what most would consider low carb.

At that level of carbs you can have tacos, and pizza, and those other things. You might have to tweak some of them (add more meat to your pizza, for example) or pair them with other dishes to balance them out, but tweaking is a lot easier than foregoing them.

Are the very low carb diets better? It's unclear but even if they are, a merely OK diet that you can stick to long term is better than a great diet that you cannot stick to.

Will this work for you? Maybe not--one of the most important things researchers are learning is that there is no one size fits all in diet. It worked well for me [1], and it is pretty easy to try, so why not give it a shot?

I picked 40% as a first goal because it is easy to compute from the nutrition label. Take calories, divide by 10, and change the unit from "calories" to "grams", and that is how many grams of carbs that food can have and still meet the 40% goal.

To see if the whole meal meets the goal, just do the check for each item, and keep track of the total of the differences between cal/10 and g carbs for each item.

For example, suppose you are considered a Wendy's double with cheese, and large fries. The burger is 810 calories, 36g of carbs. 81 > 36, so it easily meets the 40% goal. The fries are 530 calories, 64g of carbs. 53 For the burger, you could add 45g of carbs and meet the goal. For the fries, you would have to remove 11g of carbs, or add -11g carbs. 45g + -11g = 34g of carbs. Your proposed meal is OK.

Now suppose that afternoon you have the chance to have a chocolate chip cookie. 200 calories, 30g carbs. It's over 40% (20 What I did was try to make sure that the first meal of the day had lots of protein and fat, so that I would be ahead by quite a bit. I'd then keep track mentally of how far ahead I was during the day, and would try to avoid letting myself get behind.

In theory there is nothing wrong with letting yourself get behind at breakfast or lunch, and making it up at dinner. In practice, though, that means that if anything happens that disrupts your dinner plans you could end up behind for the day. If you start ahead disruptions are less likely to blow the whole day.

[1] Result: 140 pounds lost over 18 months, and stable weight since then (six months). (Also a drop in blood sugar, from an A1C of 8.1 on multiple diabetes meds to 4.8 on no meds. I've been under 5 for the last six months, and my doctor removed the diagnoses of diabetes from my chart).

Post reply on HN