Dietary Carbohydrates Impair Healthspan and Promote Mortality • Hacker News Board

Re: Dietary Carbohydrates Impair Healthspan and Promote Mortality

#31

Post by philfrasty » Fri, Oct 13, 2017, 1:22 PM UTC

randallsquared wrote: post #25

fasteo wrote: post #11

Note that this is probably not what you are thinking (low-carb, very-low carb or even keto diets are good for your healthspan). The lowest quintile in this study were consuming 46,4% of kcal from carbs (that's about 230 gram of carbs for a 2000 kcal total intake). Not even close to low carb by today's standard in the health blogosphere. The authors make this explicit in the discussion section: >>> However, the absenc…

> Importantly, a certain amount of carbohydrate is necessary to meet short-term energy demands during physical activity [...] Why would they make such a claim? Anyone who has done keto and worked out has probably had the experience of doing quite a lot of physical activity while having had no carbohydrate intake at all for half a day before, or more.

„no carbohydrate intake at all for half a day before“ no way your body was in ketosis.

Re: Dietary Carbohydrates Impair Healthspan and Promote Mortality

#32

Post by digitalsushi » Fri, Oct 13, 2017, 1:22 PM UTC

metalliqaz wrote: post #28

Man I'm screwed. Don't drink, don't smoke, but totally addicted to carbs. Granola bars...mmmmmm

are you addicted to carbs, or are the critters living in your gut that get hangry when you starve them? more of a talking point because i dont have my head around it. my wife had me do a "die off" diet for several weeks of doing keto; i got super bloated, got a rash everywhere, and then all of a sudden felt skinny and good. ...then i binged and it was all normal again

Re: Dietary Carbohydrates Impair Healthspan and Promote Mortality

#33

Post by fasteo » Fri, Oct 13, 2017, 1:23 PM UTC

randallsquared wrote: post #25

fasteo wrote: post #11

Note that this is probably not what you are thinking (low-carb, very-low carb or even keto diets are good for your healthspan). The lowest quintile in this study were consuming 46,4% of kcal from carbs (that's about 230 gram of carbs for a 2000 kcal total intake). Not even close to low carb by today's standard in the health blogosphere. The authors make this explicit in the discussion section: >>> However, the absenc…

> Importantly, a certain amount of carbohydrate is necessary to meet short-term energy demands during physical activity [...] Why would they make such a claim? Anyone who has done keto and worked out has probably had the experience of doing quite a lot of physical activity while having had no carbohydrate intake at all for half a day before, or more.

At most, your brain can run with 75% ketones/25% glucose. Other organs (kidneys, red blood cells, cornea) need about 15-25 grams/carb per day. If you do not get glucose from diet, your body will build it (gluconeogenesis).

Must see if you want to understand/practice keto right:

https://www.youtube.com/user/chrismasterjohn/videos

Re: Dietary Carbohydrates Impair Healthspan and Promote Mortality

#34

Post by rhinoceraptor » Fri, Oct 13, 2017, 1:23 PM UTC

fasteo wrote: post #11

Note that this is probably not what you are thinking (low-carb, very-low carb or even keto diets are good for your healthspan). The lowest quintile in this study were consuming 46,4% of kcal from carbs (that's about 230 gram of carbs for a 2000 kcal total intake). Not even close to low carb by today's standard in the health blogosphere. The authors make this explicit in the discussion section: >>> However, the absenc…

There’s no such thing as necessary carbohydrates. The body is capable of producing all the glucose it needs.

Re: Dietary Carbohydrates Impair Healthspan and Promote Mortality

#35

Post by cup-of-tea » Fri, Oct 13, 2017, 1:26 PM UTC

I've read a lot of, often conflicting, dietry guidance. I have realised one very important thing: humans will very easily accept that something they enjoy is bad for them (see fat, sex etc.) So listening to what people say is bad for them is stupid.

Instead I have taken a simpler approach: I observe the lifestyles of people who are healthy and live a long time. I have observed that eating simply "good, old-fashioned" home cooked food is important. My grandmother lived into her 90s. Ate fat and carbs. Julia Child lived into her 90s. Ate fat and carbs. Edna Lewis lived into her 90s. Ate fat and carbs. I could go on. Just do what they did and you'll have as good a chance as any.

Re: Dietary Carbohydrates Impair Healthspan and Promote Mortality

#36

Post by didgeoridoo » Fri, Oct 13, 2017, 1:26 PM UTC

mkrecny wrote: post #29

randallsquared wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Importantly, a certain amount of carbohydrate is necessary to meet short-term energy demands during physical activity [...] Why would they make such a claim? Anyone who has done keto and worked out has probably had the experience of doing quite a lot of physical activity while having had no carbohydrate intake at all for half a day before, or more.

Half a day of carb restriction wouldn't meaningfully deplete glycogen stores.

I’ve been At low circulating insulin levels, most cells in your body can efficiently metabolize fatty acids. For the minority of cells that cannot, your liver converts protein into sugar by a process known as gluconeogenesis.

It’s very possible to be a performance athlete and eat very low carb.

Re: Dietary Carbohydrates Impair Healthspan and Promote Mortality

#37

Post by XFrequentist » Fri, Oct 13, 2017, 1:26 PM UTC

fasteo wrote: post #11

Note that this is probably not what you are thinking (low-carb, very-low carb or even keto diets are good for your healthspan). The lowest quintile in this study were consuming 46,4% of kcal from carbs (that's about 230 gram of carbs for a 2000 kcal total intake). Not even close to low carb by today's standard in the health blogosphere. The authors make this explicit in the discussion section: >>> However, the absenc…

Anecdatum, but I play competitive basketball on a very low carbohydrate diet (necessary seems necessarily false.

The missing concept (in the brief quote in your comment) might be "fat adaptation", which takes (in my experience) 2-4 weeks (details: http://www.artandscienceoflowcarb.com/the-art-and-science-of... )

One certainly can fuel activity with carbohydrates, but a fat-adapted person should have no trouble with physical activity on a (very) low carbohydrate diet. Interestingly, a fat-adapted athlete can still use carbohydrates for supplemental fuel before, during, or immediately following extreme exertion (no adaptation is required for short-term use of carbohydrates).

Re: Dietary Carbohydrates Impair Healthspan and Promote Mortality

#38

Post by jrs95 » Fri, Oct 13, 2017, 1:27 PM UTC

whalesalad wrote: post #2

I’ve been living a ketogenic lifestyle for a few years now. I go in and out once and a while but seeing the “fat is bad” theory thrown out the window with research like this makes it easier to remain committed. The trouble comes with the way society has been conditioned to have carbs with every meal. Like 90% of the food my peer group eats are surrounded in carbs. Even for a company-wide lunch in the office: the go-t…

Fat is bad for some people, though. How satiated someone is by carbs or protein tends to be pretty consistent, but fat is more variable between individuals. Some people are just predisposed to overeating fats.

Re: Dietary Carbohydrates Impair Healthspan and Promote Mortality

#39

Post by drpgq » Fri, Oct 13, 2017, 1:27 PM UTC

"Moreover, there was no link to cardiovascular events or related mortality, except for saturated fats, which were unexpectedly associated with a lower risk of stroke."

That's interesting.

Re: Dietary Carbohydrates Impair Healthspan and Promote Mortality

#40

Post by arkades » Fri, Oct 13, 2017, 1:28 PM UTC

mkrecny wrote: post #29

randallsquared wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Importantly, a certain amount of carbohydrate is necessary to meet short-term energy demands during physical activity [...] Why would they make such a claim? Anyone who has done keto and worked out has probably had the experience of doing quite a lot of physical activity while having had no carbohydrate intake at all for half a day before, or more.

Half a day of carb restriction wouldn't meaningfully deplete glycogen stores.

80m of exercise is enough to deplete muscle glycogen to as-near-zero as makes no difference.

In a sessile starvation state glycogen stops being a meaningful energy source after 2 days, with the majority of it depleted in approximately 8-12 hrs (it's non-linear).

Depending on one's baseline physical activity and what they mean by "half a day," sure, glycogen stores can be reasonably depleted.

That said, glucogenic amino acids can replenish glucose stores, which can ultimately become glycogen. Glycogen remains low only in the context of low-carb and low-total calories, so what glycogen is replenished is soon exhausted.