I feel like I've seen another slow switch, in that injury news is being emphasized more. I'm not sure that the rate of injury is climbing, but it seems like the tone of press coverage is increasing. I also wonder how much of a season's outcome can be attributed to injury luck. Like am I basically watching a tournament that is more about when what injury will happen to who, than it is about actual skill, strategy, and tactics?
ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field
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Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field
#72What about the sponsorship of daredevil sports like free climbing, wing suits, etc., by consumer companies like GoPro and Redbull. I feel that we are supporting these companies with our purchases, and then they in turn create social media spectacles by giving these people an incentive to do dangerous stunts. Recently a wingsuit daredevil died while livestreaming on Facebook, watched by his young daughter and wife. It…
One point you're missing: Daredevil sports are entirely self-inflicted. Football is about inflicting hurt on others.
Second point: There's no incentive to hurt yourself. You're not going to be better paid because you fell off a cliff. You're sure better paid because you can take hits and still create a few extra inches in football.
Third point: Daredevil sports don't have long-term risks. (Well, not entirely true - IIRC arthritis is a big thing for climbers who survive)
Fourth point: We groom football players throughout school.
I'm not sure the equivalency holds.
Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field
#73Earlier quoted context omitted.
1. Willingly plays 5 years in the league, makes $10,000,000, has 50% chance of reduced health in the future. 2. Willingly works 5 years in the factory, makes $10,000, has 50% chance of reduced health in the future. Why does the first situation bother us so much more than the second? Most products we use are built via the second, but you're probably still using those products. The NFL seems like better employment than…
We directly spend billions of dollars on occupational safety. And people raise issues with buying goods from countries with lower standards all the time. I would say it is at least as big an issue in the public consciousness as the danger to the players of professional sports.
Agreed. See this quote from the OSHA website.
Under the OSH Act, employers are responsible for providing a safe and healthful workplace. OSHA's mission is to assure safe and healthful workplaces by setting and enforcing standards, and by providing training, outreach, education and assistance. Employers must comply with all applicable OSHA standards. Employers must also comply with the General Duty Clause of the OSH Act, which requires employers to keep their workplace free of serious recognized hazards.[1]
Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field
#74Good for him. I stopped following football after watching League of Denial on PBS. If I'm at the bar or something and it happens to be on, I might passively watch it, but I haven't sought it out since. I just can't support the NFL. I do feel torn though because I love hockey. I know they're dealing with similar controversies. My justification, however flimsy it might be is that I don't like the fighting (I might be i…
Fellow hockey fan here. Can you share some information about Hockey's concussion risks? I was not aware it is "dealing with similar controversies". There are certainly head injuries in Hockey, but I was not aware that people had the same life-altering issues brought on by years of head trauma from football.
Sidney Crosby is a good example of a high profile player that has had multiple concussions. [1] The risk in hockey does not come from the fighting, those are less common than most people think, rather it comes from taking big hits that knock the person off balance and send them head first into the wall. I have been playing hockey the majority of my life and one of the first things that I can remember being taught was to keep your head up and never go head first into the boards.
Hockey helmets are different than a football helmet. For starters, the shell of a hockey helmet is much softer than that of a football helmet. This can help to attenuate some of the energy from a hit. The other huge difference is the mass of the helmet. Hockey helmets are light compared to a football helmet.
Another large difference between the sports is the rules covering head contact. While it is illegal in both sports to hit with your head, football tends to see a much higher rate of "incidental" contact. Hockey players are not taking hits to the head every play
[1] http://www.espn.com/blog/statsinfo/post/_/id/131681/sidney-c...
Edit: Minor Typos
Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field
#75Earlier quoted context omitted.
The other difference is rugby limits the contact to the guy carrying the ball to a greater degree than American football. In the US version, the majority of players on the field will have contact on the majority of plays.
Also, I don't see too many 350lb corn-fed rugby players when I've watched compared to American football.
There are some but in sport agility is super important and technique as well. Mass helps but not as much as good tehnique.
Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field
#76Speaking as someone from a rugby-playing nation, where mostly players wear no protection except mouthguards and shin pads, American Football is spectacular but insane. Wearing protective helmets just ups the ante as players launch into each other with full force. In rugby, you don't tackle someone like that as you'll hurt yourself, and fail to stop the opponent. Rugby is a plenty violent sport, and has its own health…
This is how I feel about boxing vs MMA. Boxing gloves are huge and massively padded, meaning you take hit after hit after hit, bouncing your brain around like a ball. MMA gloves are only padded enough to maybe prevent you from breaking your knuckles, and maybe prevent your knuckles from breaking someone's jaw. If you threw the kind of punches people throw in boxing with MMA gloves on, you'd wreck your hands. That one…
Joe Rogan feels that MMA would be safer if the participants did not wear gloves https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-SY0F6Kkg0
Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field
#77What about the sponsorship of daredevil sports like free climbing, wing suits, etc., by consumer companies like GoPro and Redbull. I feel that we are supporting these companies with our purchases, and then they in turn create social media spectacles by giving these people an incentive to do dangerous stunts. Recently a wingsuit daredevil died while livestreaming on Facebook, watched by his young daughter and wife. It…
The risk profile is entirely different. When you go jump off a cliff you're saying "there's an x% chance I will die right now" but there's no chance that you die slowly 20 years later after surviving the jump. So it's much more fair to ask the jumper to evaluate the risk. Playing football is a slow killer. After years and years of hits you may get serious brain damage. But there was no one particular moment, no singl…
Also even though Red Bull and other sponsors are making money off other's risk, they aren't actively trying to suppress and hide that info like it seems the NFL has been doing for years regarding concussion risk.
Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field
#78Good for him. I stopped following football after watching League of Denial on PBS. If I'm at the bar or something and it happens to be on, I might passively watch it, but I haven't sought it out since. I just can't support the NFL. I do feel torn though because I love hockey. I know they're dealing with similar controversies. My justification, however flimsy it might be is that I don't like the fighting (I might be i…
1. Willingly plays 5 years in the league, makes $10,000,000, has 50% chance of reduced health in the future. 2. Willingly works 5 years in the factory, makes $10,000, has 50% chance of reduced health in the future. Why does the first situation bother us so much more than the second? Most products we use are built via the second, but you're probably still using those products. The NFL seems like better employment than…
The big problem with the NFL is that they keep trying to suppress the information and act like the risks are far lower than they really are.
You can't fairly describe it as "willingly do it" if they don't have all the facts, and the other party to the transaction is intentionally hiding facts that make it look worse.
And as for the factory worker, it does bother us a great deal. Dangerous working conditions get a ton of attention, and attempts to cover up workplace dangers are criticized severely.
Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field
#79Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think one difference is that we don't have free climbing and wing suit programs in middle schools. It's one thing if you are an adult and are being paid to participate, it's another when you are a kid and playing is your ticket to a college education. I'm in Texas so my view on football is warped, but the intensity that kids play football with is nuts.
Grew up a football fanatic. Older me now thinks mixing scholastics and athletics is nuts. I remain unclear why tax payers are subsidizing professional sports by funding their farm system. And their stadiums. And their monopolies. I now favor a european style club system over any intramural sports. Government and sports should not mix.
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Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field
#80“I don’t feel that my being part of covering the National Football League is perpetuating danger,” (Al Michaels) said in a phone interview. “If it’s not me, somebody else is going to do this."
Wow. The drug dealer's response.