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Aetna accidentally exposed customer HIV statuses in clear envelope windows

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Aetna accidentally exposed customer HIV statuses in clear envelope windows

#71

Post by cgb223 »

blackguardx wrote: post #66
cgb223 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had COBRA healthcare through them and even though HR did all the paperwork and submitted it to Aetna, Aetna forgot to actually setup the policy. I found this out the hard way in the ER mid near fatal allergic reaction So yeah, you'll be fine...

Was this in California around 2008? There was a big scandal about this and now there are big fines for doing it. A few insurers were accepting people (and accepting payment) without actually setting them up in the system. When many of these people went to use the insurance, they were told that not only did they not have insurance, they would be denied any insurance for having pre-existing conditions.

No this was two months ago

Maybe they're still doing it

Re: Aetna accidentally exposed customer HIV statuses in clear envelope windows

#72

Post by nsxwolf »

sjg007 wrote: post #65
nsxwolf wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right now I'm on the hook for 5 figures with BC/BS for my son's birth expenses, because HR screwed up his application. It's a Kafkaesque byzantine labyrinth of red tape and buck passing. I'm not sure they're evil, just bureaucratic.

I think that should be covered under the mom's insurance at least for 30 days post birth (at least in California). I could be wrong..

It is for sure, but it's tough getting them to do what they're supposed to do.

Re: Aetna accidentally exposed customer HIV statuses in clear envelope windows

#73

Post by Cerium »

chaosphere2112 wrote: post #55
rcraft wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are there any other insurers that don't do/want many of these same things?

For those in one of the covered regions[1], Kaiser Permanente is largely not-evil. You have to go through your GP to get referrals to specialists, but it's a series of mostly consistent "I have X problem" "Try Y" "Didn't work" "Try Z" "Didn't Work" "OK, let's get you to a specialist" events. They have an interesting governance structure ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaiser_Permanente ) that tries to align incentive…

Lots of people complain about Kaiser. I was a member when I was growing up, and have signed up again now that I have a job offering Kaiser coverage.

For me Kaiser is a couple things. First of all it is peace of mind. They won't screw you. Essentially everything they offer is covered at a reasonable rate. Example: I was sent to the emergency room once and was able to pay on the spot with the cash in my wallet. Secondly, if you go to one of their medical centers everything is in that building. When I am sick, I don't want to go to a few stops across town to get everything (doctors office, lab, pharmacy, etc).

Additionally they actively do things to keep people healthy. They host farmers markets at some of their centers, run advertisements focused on getting exercise and eating well. In general, they make you feel like they are on your side.

Re: Aetna accidentally exposed customer HIV statuses in clear envelope windows

#74

Post by bdamm »

rdiddly wrote: post #54
pluma wrote: post #51

Does the US not have standardized letter and envelope sizes? In Germany we have standards for paper sizes, window placement and the layout of business letters. Considering this type of letter is probably not typed out by hand, it's trivial to use a template with the correct layout. At that point the choice of letter becomes irrelevant. I'd expect the US to have something similar but maybe they don't? If there are sta…

There is no standard that I'm aware of. On a related note, if I had a dollar (or a Euro) for every US problem that the Germans solved long ago through straight thinking, I'd have enough money to move to Germany.

Have you talked to some Germans about how "straight thinking" they think their country is? When you don't get to see the sausage made it looks good but peel pack the process a bit and you'll see that there are still very significant issues. Note: I have huge respect for German society and governance.

Re: Aetna accidentally exposed customer HIV statuses in clear envelope windows

#75

Post by wjamesg »

noonespecial wrote: post #48
sqeaky wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You shouldn't be downvoted for normal and reasonable questions, or even for self doubt. Aetna is terrible. The lobby against healthcare reform at every turn. They didn't want obamacare/ACA they didn't want to compete accross state lines, they want to be able to exempt people from pre-existing conditions, they want to give people the run-around. They are not trustworthy and they are run by bad people. (don't beat up o…

>(don't beat up on their phone agents though, they are just trying to make ends meets). I've gotten very tired of this. Every time I'm on calls like this now I gently suggest to the phone agent that they know that what they are doing contributes to a system that hurts people and that they should try to do something more with their lives. Don't scream or bluster. Do it with gentleness and respect and get ready to be o…

Wow

Re: Aetna accidentally exposed customer HIV statuses in clear envelope windows

#76

Post by yebyen »

blackguardx wrote: post #66
cgb223 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had COBRA healthcare through them and even though HR did all the paperwork and submitted it to Aetna, Aetna forgot to actually setup the policy. I found this out the hard way in the ER mid near fatal allergic reaction So yeah, you'll be fine...

Was this in California around 2008? There was a big scandal about this and now there are big fines for doing it. A few insurers were accepting people (and accepting payment) without actually setting them up in the system. When many of these people went to use the insurance, they were told that not only did they not have insurance, they would be denied any insurance for having pre-existing conditions.

My favorite is the HR person who says "we can correct any errors that were made with your insurance retroactively, don't worry"

I am worried, though! Because I've got this deduction coming out of my paycheck for insurance, and your insurance provider just told me that they've never heard of me! Escalate!

Re: Aetna accidentally exposed customer HIV statuses in clear envelope windows

#77

Post by emodendroket »

InitialLastName wrote: post #57
emodendroket wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is really beside the point. The incentive for profit-driven insurers is not to pay for health coverage to whatever extent they can get away with.

Maybe we shouldn't be funding healthcare on a profit-driven basis then.

No, probably not, but in the current conditions in the United States it's not like you have any choice as to whether you want to participate in for-profit medicine.

Re: Aetna accidentally exposed customer HIV statuses in clear envelope windows

#78

Post by arkades »

pinneycolton wrote: post #68
arkades wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not something I'd recommend. Any lapse in payment will be used to suspend your policy in the future in the event you get flagged as a high-expense patient, backdated to the period you didn't pay your premiums on time. Pay on time, keep documentation you paid on time. Hell, turn on autopay and keep documentation on -that-. Don't ever think you can hold your premiums hostage. You'll only be screwing yourself. E…

I wonder if they meant that you shouldn't pay providers until things are sorted out. I agree that you need to pay your premiums, but doctors and hospitals will just send you to collections. Still not a great option, but it does keep the money in your pocket until things are sorted out. (Of course, I wouldn't do this unless I was very sure I was right, also, so that any collections issues would be an insurer/provider…

If you don't pay a bill, there's no error. The subsequent hit to interest rates on something like a mortgage outweighs most minor medical bills.

Re: Aetna accidentally exposed customer HIV statuses in clear envelope windows

#79

Post by emodendroket »

pinneycolton wrote: post #68
arkades wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not something I'd recommend. Any lapse in payment will be used to suspend your policy in the future in the event you get flagged as a high-expense patient, backdated to the period you didn't pay your premiums on time. Pay on time, keep documentation you paid on time. Hell, turn on autopay and keep documentation on -that-. Don't ever think you can hold your premiums hostage. You'll only be screwing yourself. E…

I wonder if they meant that you shouldn't pay providers until things are sorted out. I agree that you need to pay your premiums, but doctors and hospitals will just send you to collections. Still not a great option, but it does keep the money in your pocket until things are sorted out. (Of course, I wouldn't do this unless I was very sure I was right, also, so that any collections issues would be an insurer/provider…

As far as your provider is concerned, whether your insurance should pay or not isn't really their problem. I have never been somewhere that did not make me sign a form saying that I agreed to be responsible for whatever my insurance did not pay.

Re: Aetna accidentally exposed customer HIV statuses in clear envelope windows

#80

Post by chimeracoder »

bdamm wrote: post #70
chimeracoder wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Generating revenue is in direct conflict with providing patient care Without revenue, there's no money to use to actually provide care. > It's a uniquely American problem. It's not at all. Aside from the fact that most of the world uses at least some degree of privatization in providing or paying for healthcare, even the few that don't do so at the metaphorical "last mile" (such as England) still suffer from the un…

In most developed nations outside America, a doctor's opinion carries more administrative weight. There may be an administrator, but if a doctor says a procedure is to be done, the payment can generally follow. A doctor is like an officer in that regard. In America, the insurance company and their payment policies carry more weight than the doctor's decisions. This matters a great deal if you have a traumatic acciden…

> In most developed nations outside America, a doctor's opinion carries more administrative weight. In America, the insurance company and their payment policies carry more weight than the doctor's decisions.

No, in most developed nations other than the US, the doctor has approximately the same power that they do in the US.

The difference is that, under capitated systems or systems like the NHS (which is not actually capitated yet, but functions more or less like it is), the doctor factors the cost into their decision-making process. That might sound like a good thing for patients, but it's generally not - it means they have an incentive to avoid unnecessary care, but they also have a very direct incentive to bias on the side of avoiding necessary care as well, to avoid eating into their budget.

This is absolutely a problem with the NHS, although Hacker News readers tend not to be the demographics that suffer from it the most, so you don't hear about it as much here.

> in America, if you get hurt, you need a lawyer almost a badly as you need a doctor

I get that this is intended to be hyperbole, but even on that scale, it's absurd.

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