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Harvard withdraws 10 acceptances for ‘offensive’ memes in private group chat

washingtonpost.com

71–80 of 370 posts

Re: Harvard withdraws 10 acceptances for ‘offensive’ memes in private group chat

#71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People go to the toilet to get the crap out. Same for many online forums.

Many do it for fun while not being racist. 4chan is an example.

I saw this firsthand with a former flatmate of mine. He passionately studied Semitic languages and Persian at uni, spent a lot of time traveling or studying abroad in Israel, Arab countries, and Iran. His social circle in Europe was heavy with immigrants from those countries and with them he seemed to be the best of friends. And yet he loved to visit 4chan and collect anti-Semitic and anti-Muslim memes to repost elsewhere just for the lols. Deciding if a person is "really racist" or not has become a challenge in our age.

Re: Harvard withdraws 10 acceptances for ‘offensive’ memes in private group chat

#73
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is this excessive? They were promoting the sort of hate speech you find in the darker corners of 4chan and /r/The_Donald. Harvard is fully within their rights to require a certain level of civility and maturity of their applicants.

excessive on the posts they posted, not Harvard's actions. I think it isn't enough of a punishment for what they did. It's on a public page representing Harvard I don't expect any less.

Oh, I'm sorry I misunderstood your comment. I think we're in agreement.

Re: Harvard withdraws 10 acceptances for ‘offensive’ memes in private group chat

#74
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am perfectly fine with private organizations banning whoever they like for posting racist shit. Racist shit is "wrong speech". If I have friends who start uttering racist shit, and I can't talk them out of it, they are no longer my friends. (This has happened precisely once, no regrets. Thanks, Fox News, for poisoning an old man's mind.) Posting racist memes is wrong, saying racist things is wrong, thinking racist…

I want to respond to you in good faith but I'm afraid to because I get the strong impression that you will not respond in kind. Therefore I choose to say nothing further.

Then maybe don't say anything at all.

Re: Harvard withdraws 10 acceptances for ‘offensive’ memes in private group chat

#75

I'm so conflicted right now. On the one hand, yeah, that shit is offensive and I'm not too keen on elevating a person who makes jokes about sexual assault or violence against minorities. On the other hand I'm terrified at the creeping surveillance society that has institutions examining all of our utterances for "wrong speech", which is much too close for comfort to "wrong think", which is much too close for comfort…

Dystopian fiction has given so much terrorizing weight to the concept of "thoughtcrime" and "wrong think" that I think people forget how much positive effect a culture can have on widespread mindsets and stopping ignorance.

There are some ignorant thoughts that have almost entirely fallen out of the collective consciousness (in terms of serious belief, not abstract discussion of the past). (As a random example, there are vanishingly few ignorant people left who genuinely believe that disease is a punishment of the wicked that should not be interfered with, "ostracize the lepers", etc.) There are many more that need to.

If you think that some people are inherently "lesser" than others and can be treated as such, that's wrong. If you think that it's OK to assault people, that's wrong. Whether that turns into violent action or not, it still pervades other actions and societal structure, and it's the source of more subtle discrimination; that it has gone as far as being written and conveyed in ways that influence others makes it more than just thoughts. It's a good thing to influence society in ways that make people who think and write and talk and influence others in that way less successful, favoring people who don't, and over time find that fewer people think that way.

Because the same power that makes it possible for institutions to do that also gives us a check on those institutions. It seems entirely fine for an institution to look at the kind of person they're accepting and be selective in this way. If we start seeing institutions be selective for things we don't want to see selection on, we can push back on those institutions. There's no slippery slope here.

We're not talking about violent suppression of free speech. We're talking about non-violent exercise of the right to free association, to shun racists and sexists.

Re: Harvard withdraws 10 acceptances for ‘offensive’ memes in private group chat

#77
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am perfectly fine with private organizations banning whoever they like for posting racist shit. Racist shit is "wrong speech". If I have friends who start uttering racist shit, and I can't talk them out of it, they are no longer my friends. (This has happened precisely once, no regrets. Thanks, Fox News, for poisoning an old man's mind.) Posting racist memes is wrong, saying racist things is wrong, thinking racist…

because free speech is universal. You can't cherry pick what topics/views/opinions are protected based on your world view.

No one is taking away their free speech. They're absolutely free to keep saying whatever they like (within the law of course). Booting someone for immoral conduct explicitly falls within Harvard's reserved rights as a private entity as plainly laid out in their terms of acceptance. Nothing to do with free speech.

Re: Harvard withdraws 10 acceptances for ‘offensive’ memes in private group chat

#78
post #41

Considering how competitive the acceptance criteria are for Harvard (2,056 out of 39,506 applications), this is just another decision point. Now 10 other people are able to get in, and the entire body of current and prospective students have learned a valuable lesson about privacy and free speech.

unfortunately for these 10 ex-applicants of Harvard they might not get into any University period for 2017/2018... This isn't a small implication to them for stupid posts online. I'm not 100% sure if I feel that's fair. them not getting into Harvard is one thing but losing education at this point in time is even worse.

Re: Harvard withdraws 10 acceptances for ‘offensive’ memes in private group chat

#79
I think an article such as this one is a clear example of the generational differences between older and younger people. I'm fairly close to these kids' age and I've browsed memes from /r/dankmemes and enjoyed them.

The thing is, is that these memes are supposed to be self-aware of how offensive they are. That's the joke. They're meant to be so offensive and ridiculous that reactions can be drawn from outside spectators so they can get offended and you can laugh at them for being a "normie".

I have no issue with these jokes unless they've been made in a sincere attempt at racism or sexism, and knowing my experience with the internet, I don't believe this is the case.

Re: Harvard withdraws 10 acceptances for ‘offensive’ memes in private group chat

#80
I don't want to take from the gravity of the main topic, but it seemed notable that the online group -- and this is the larger one, not the subset that got in trouble -- identify as "bourgeois". Unless Harvard has really changed, then... nope!
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