The far-reaching effects of air conditioning • Hacker News Board

Re: The far-reaching effects of air conditioning

#71

Post by lorenzhs » Tue, Jun 06, 2017, 8:55 AM UTC

czechdeveloper wrote: post #17

ido wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We live in Berlin and the insulation and generally high ceilings make most apartments pretty cool even in the hotter summer days (which are rare and rarely much hotter than 30c). There are maybe 2-3 weeks per year when I wish we had air conditioning, at most.

Once indoors temperature hits 26, I can't get any work done. I know I have short temperature comfort range, but 30 indoors is crazy for me.

ido was talking about outside temperature.

I live in one of the hottest cities in Germany (Karlsruhe) and I agree with ido. There's around 2-3 weeks where home air conditioning would really be useful. The rest of the time, temperature is controlled easily enough by opening windows at night and closing the shutters during the daytime while at the office.

Air conditioning for offices is a different story.

Re: The far-reaching effects of air conditioning

#72

Post by barrkel » Tue, Jun 06, 2017, 8:58 AM UTC

nsxwolf wrote: post #22

pitaj wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Better have it too cold and people where extra clothing than have people sweating themselves. You can always put more clothes on, you can't take off your skin.

It's easy to get warm; hard to get cold.

It's not so easy to protect e.g. your wrists from the cold desk.

Re: The far-reaching effects of air conditioning

#73

Post by ido » Tue, Jun 06, 2017, 8:59 AM UTC

kayoone wrote: post #35

ido wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We live in Berlin and the insulation and generally high ceilings make most apartments pretty cool even in the hotter summer days (which are rare and rarely much hotter than 30c). There are maybe 2-3 weeks per year when I wish we had air conditioning, at most.

i actually live in Berlin too and while Summer 2016 wasn't that bad, i remember suffering a lot in the 2015 summer heat in an office without AC. And that wasn't just a few days, it was weeks at a time.

My office in 2015 was in an Altbau with very high ceilings and thick walls & it was nice and cool. I would still argue in favour of better insulation/construction.

EDIT: oh but transit here should definitely be better air-conditioned: I don't think there's much you can otherwise do to make subways/trains/busses pleasant once it starts getting hot.

Re: The far-reaching effects of air conditioning

#74

Post by ido » Tue, Jun 06, 2017, 9:00 AM UTC

czechdeveloper wrote: post #17

ido wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We live in Berlin and the insulation and generally high ceilings make most apartments pretty cool even in the hotter summer days (which are rare and rarely much hotter than 30c). There are maybe 2-3 weeks per year when I wish we had air conditioning, at most.

Once indoors temperature hits 26, I can't get any work done. I know I have short temperature comfort range, but 30 indoors is crazy for me.

I don't think indoor temperature ever reached 30c inside my apartment (or if it did it was definitely not for long).

Re: The far-reaching effects of air conditioning

#75

Post by ComputerGuru » Tue, Jun 06, 2017, 9:02 AM UTC

TomK32 wrote: post #43

Why did no one mention the Romans yet? They came up with the frigidarium where you could literally cool down with your friends and some private houses even had water running inside their walls to cool it down (or hot air in the colder months). Temperature control in buildings is 100% architecture and technical add-ons like AC are a poor choice. Look at termites how they use architecture to cool their hives.

The article does mention the Romans, though:

> The eccentric Roman emperor Elagabulus sent slaves to bring snow down from the mountains and pile it in his garden, where breezes would carry the cooler air inside.

Re: The far-reaching effects of air conditioning

#76

Post by dEnigma » Tue, Jun 06, 2017, 9:17 AM UTC

_0w8t wrote: post #70

arethuza wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect it very much depends what you are used to - I probably think of 15C as "comfortable" and 25C inside would be sweltering. Having said that I'm in Scotland - the other day we had heavy rain and it was 8C which is weather we could get at any time of the year!

What closing do you use at 15C? After a few years in Norway I can be OK in a t-shirt at 18C. Anything below that still requires a jacket or sweater to stay comfortable.

Not OP, but here in Austria I wear t-shirts for most of the year. I even used to go out in just a shirt on warmer winter days with only light snowfall, but nowadays I really notice the cold when I do that. Everything above 10°C is very comfortable to me. Among my friends and relatives I am the exception of course. Most of them dress in more layers, some even in summer.

Re: The far-reaching effects of air conditioning

#77

Post by arethuza » Tue, Jun 06, 2017, 9:19 AM UTC

ownagefool wrote: post #60

arethuza wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect it very much depends what you are used to - I probably think of 15C as "comfortable" and 25C inside would be sweltering. Having said that I'm in Scotland - the other day we had heavy rain and it was 8C which is weather we could get at any time of the year!

Funny. I'm Scottish and I would find 15c utterly baltic, especially when inside.

I suspect its because we used to live in a very old property that was very difficult to heat. So we got used to it!

Edit: I remember going to the halls at Uni for the first time and nearly dying of the heat - never lived anywhere that had central heating. Got used to and, of course, felt like I'd been exiled to Siberia when I went to my parents ramshackle large house for the Xmas break.

Re: The far-reaching effects of air conditioning

#78

Post by arethuza » Tue, Jun 06, 2017, 9:20 AM UTC

_0w8t wrote: post #70

arethuza wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect it very much depends what you are used to - I probably think of 15C as "comfortable" and 25C inside would be sweltering. Having said that I'm in Scotland - the other day we had heavy rain and it was 8C which is weather we could get at any time of the year!

What closing do you use at 15C? After a few years in Norway I can be OK in a t-shirt at 18C. Anything below that still requires a jacket or sweater to stay comfortable.

Quite happy in a t-shirt at 15C - especially if doing something other than sitting at a PC!

Re: The far-reaching effects of air conditioning

#79

Post by slackingoff2017 » Tue, Jun 06, 2017, 9:23 AM UTC

eBombzor wrote: post #25

pitaj wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Better have it too cold and people where extra clothing than have people sweating themselves. You can always put more clothes on, you can't take off your skin.

Decreasing the AC doesn't mean people will start sweating themselves. 75 - 78 F is perfect but most buildings for some reason turn their ACs all the way down to the 60s. For athletic centers, of course it makes sense. But in big open libraries, lecture halls, places with little activity in general, it's awful. It's especially bad for your health if you live in a hot region like southern California since your body has…

It depends on the climate. I used to live up north and we kept our houses and buildings around 68-71.

I live in a hot climate now and it's normal to keep inside temps 75-78.

In both places inside temps feel normal. The body seems to adjust it's idea of a comfortable temperature after acclimating to a new climate. When I first moved down south I kept my thermostat at 70 but it felt too cold after a few months. My most comfortable temperature is 76 now.

Re: The far-reaching effects of air conditioning

#80

Post by wapz » Tue, Jun 06, 2017, 9:25 AM UTC

projectorlochsa wrote: post #52

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My office space in china would keep the temperature around 24-26C in the summer. My arms would literally sweat to the desk when typing (I'm not a completely in the air tyoer, as a programmer I don't need to be). I had to hit a cooler Starbucks with a laptop to get things done it was so annoying. I much would have preferred it being a bit colder, around 20C is best, even if I would wear a light jacket at that temp...a…

It sounds very weird. If the space is closed, the AC makes the air dryer, so sweating should be minimal on these low temperatures (dampness is hell). Are you sitting next to a window that is blasting its rays over your body? Is the building badly designed? Are you protected by a layer of fat cells? Sweating at 24-26C without sunlight blasting at you is very anomalous. Lowering the AC to 20C or below is such an insane…

I don't disagree with you but I'm not sure all your questions are reasonable/respectful. Here are a few examples from my situation.

The AC in Japan has two settings--one is cool and one is "dry" for dehumidify. The cool setting does not dry the air (or if so, ever so slightly). We have high humidity so 26 degrees can feel hot indoors.

There are some seats in the office that are close enough to have the sunlight hit the desk. I'm not in one of those seats but can imagine it feels very hot.

Our office is "set" to 25 but at my desk it is often over 28 degrees (all the towers are on the tables and the AC is far from my location). I consider myself in fairly good shape but sweat quite a lot when it's over 28 degrees with a PC tower blowing hot air at me.