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Ask HN: Typical Startup or Abuse?

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Re: Ask HN: Typical Startup or Abuse?

#71
post #25
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to agree, dude you are making 26k a year. Starting salary for a fresh junior is 40k and that is just someone who know HTML, CSS and Photoshop let alone if they actually know a server side language. He is lying about the 1099 being cheaper, that is only true if you are an S-Corporation, right now you are responsible for a little over 15% for social security, something that you are not if you are W2 or a corp. $…

Just as a tangent, because I didn't want to bother with my own Ask HN: > Starting salary for a fresh junior is 40k and that is just someone who know HTML, CSS and Photoshop let alone if they actually know a server side language. I know, like the back of my hand: HTML, CSS, Photoshop (and Illustrator/InDesign/Premiere/etc), Javascript, PHP, Ruby (not specialized to Rails, but with a year or two of experience in it), a…

Please understand that I intend this as honest and helpful: you are completely, wildly deluding yourself.

It is unlikely that someone with your background really knows even one or two of the tools you mentioned "like the back of your hand" by professional standards. It is completely implausible that even the most gifted and enthusiastic geek on the planet knows all of them to that standard at your stage in your career.

The world is, however, full of people (usually students with little or no professional experience) who think they have these skills. It just comes across to experienced professionals as arrogant, ill-informed, lacking in perspective... amateurish and risky, basically. Would you hire (or even interview) someone you thought was like that?

My advice to you is this: decide which skills you want to highlight at the start of your career, and if you really have no demonstrable experience with those skills, make something. Build a simple game in C++. Write a simple but well presented CRUD application to show your web skills. Write an interactive symbolic calculator in Haskell. Make sure the code is clean and you have some respectable documentation to go with it. You presumably have several years to go at uni, so you have plenty of time to develop your skills. Just keep the example programs you develop along the way.

Actual demos of real projects that you have personally completed are just about the best advert there is for your programming skills. Even if those projects are just small demos, they still beat beautiful but empty CVs any day for getting noticed and attracting the right kind of attention from prospective employers.

Re: Ask HN: Typical Startup or Abuse?

#72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't you witch to working full-time in your freelancing? I don't know if you can get more clients straight away, maybe (if your relation is good enough with them) you can ask your current clients for work recommendations, bootstrapping even more your full-time freelancing. I don't know the legalities and other related things aside, but I would make a rebellion, although you look in the worst position (you are being…

I do believe life is a good deal of weighing risks and taking them at a period of time. Jumping right off to freelancing would be too uncertain at the moment. Bills come to around $1,500/mo. Freelancing at the moment generates around $900-$1200/mo. But I currently only have the bandwidth to handle 1 or 2 projects per month. On the rebellion side I would not feel ethical doing so. I don't want this guy's business to c…

I am a freelance web designer. I am outside the US and only communicate with my clients via email and I make about $1500/month freelancing working only 4-5 hours a day. You should be making more by freelancing.

I sent you an email about this. I work as an outsourcing partner to US-based web design firms. These firms pay me a fraction of what they charge their clients, so I am looking to work with clients directly.

If you are interested we could partner up. I can provide web design and development services and have a very strong portfolio (alexwyser.com) to help us out.

This will allow you to take on more clients, provide a wider range of services (I do front-end and back-end stuff as well) and make more money. And probably help you freelance full-time.

Let me know if you are interested. And good luck.

Re: Ask HN: Typical Startup or Abuse?

#73

There are plenty of examples of entrepreneurs cajoling employees into working for little or no pay, sometimes with a false promise of stock options which are a tiny fraction of outstanding stock. But this is one of the worst I've heard. I'm sure the other comments from the smart folks who hang out on HN will echo the above. So I'm going to suggest a strategy for you that is as exploitative as your boss is being: 1. D…

Thank you very much for your reply. I agree with you on all aspects. It would be too risky for me to do anything but act normal until I settle my future plans out. One mistake I would have made would have been on the disclosure of my salary -- Thank you. And admittedly, working at this company has been very fun and a great experience for me. However the nature of how the founder is and the current compensation drove…

After you say you are not allowed to disclose your current salary, they will ask you your intended salary. You should research your market's average salary in advance, and if possible, ask other developers in the company to give you an approximate figure. Aim a bit higher so you have a margin to negotiate. Don't go too high, or they'll think you lost contact with reality.

Re: Ask HN: Typical Startup or Abuse?

#74
The other comments have covered almost all of what I'd say with these exceptions:

This company will stay alive until someone drops a dime to the IRS, at which point they'll reclassify everyone as a W-2 employee and demand income tax and FICA withholding from the boss, with interest and penalties. Unless he's put a lot in the bank from his exploitation of you all, he's not going to be able pay this (pity that he's personally liable for this; whatever the corporate structure is, this pierces the corporate veil).

You want to get out before this happens or before the IRS figures it out in some other way.

When you give notice he will almost certainly threaten you; it would be by far the best to ignore it (don't escalate, who knows how crazy he might get, ADDED: and it's best to keep in reserve, e.g. see the next paragraph), but if you can't ignore it you could always say "Be grateful I'm not reporting you to the IRS...."

If he seriously threatens you WRT to your non-compete, point out his vulnerability WRT the IRS. Unless and until he converts his employees to W-2 status (and I suppose pays his back due withholding), he's exquisitely vulnerable there.

As some have noted, don't bother to sue. At best you'd receive a pittance, per the above you might end up trying trying to collect from a bankrupt company/the owner. What you really need is closure, getting away from this bad situation which is no doubt slowly poisoning your attitudes towards work, upper management, etc.

Re: Ask HN: Typical Startup or Abuse?

#75
A couple of thoughts from a bootstrapper:

1) If you were going to get equity you would have it already. It would have been a condition of your employment, in writing. Anything else is empty promise, as I fear you are beginning to discover.

2) Even if you HAD equity, that equity is WORTHLESS until the company is sold or goes public. Equity only has value at exit or if the company is going to pay some sort of dividend. From the sound of things, both are unlikely.

3) I know you feel like you are invested in this company, that you deserve better ... and you do. That loyalty that you feel to the company does not appear to be returned. As an employer, that is a massive failure. One of the true perks of being a bootstrapper is that I am empowered to give people the "breaks" that make my place fun to work at and family friendly.

I think that it is time for you to move on. Follow mmaunder's advice carefully, especially the part about not talking about ANYTHING you're planning with co-workers. At best your co-workers may unintentionally break your confidence, and at worst will do so in an attempt to curry favor.

Re: Ask HN: Typical Startup or Abuse?

#77
post #25
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to agree, dude you are making 26k a year. Starting salary for a fresh junior is 40k and that is just someone who know HTML, CSS and Photoshop let alone if they actually know a server side language. He is lying about the 1099 being cheaper, that is only true if you are an S-Corporation, right now you are responsible for a little over 15% for social security, something that you are not if you are W2 or a corp. $…

Just as a tangent, because I didn't want to bother with my own Ask HN: > Starting salary for a fresh junior is 40k and that is just someone who know HTML, CSS and Photoshop let alone if they actually know a server side language. I know, like the back of my hand: HTML, CSS, Photoshop (and Illustrator/InDesign/Premiere/etc), Javascript, PHP, Ruby (not specialized to Rails, but with a year or two of experience in it), a…

Sign up for a free account at elance.com and spend a day taking their tests. It's the fastest way I can think of to demonstrate that you know something. Even if you don't take any work through the site, you'll have some evidence of your skillset that you'll be able to show potential employers.

Re: Ask HN: Typical Startup or Abuse?

#78

The really unfortunate things about your situation are: 1. You're probably legally misclassified as a contractor rather than a full-time employee. You should read IRS Rule 87-41 to understand why that is, but the really telling part is that you're carefully managed as to work down to the minute. Dead giveaway - you're an employee. 2. Since you're clearly an employee, you're subject to the protections of FMLA. My favo…

The Family Medical Leave Act only applies to companies with 50 or more employees.

http://www.dol.gov/dol/allcfr/Title_29/Part_825/29CFR825.111...

I agree with all of your sentiments, however.

Re: Ask HN: Typical Startup or Abuse?

#79
I am confused by this:

"and I am still making around $500/week. Which, in the beginning was great. However over the past year I have moved out, bought a car (out of need, the other died), gotten married, and have had a child. (With a second one on the way.)"

Why would you have 2 children if you are making $500 a week? Does your spouse make a lot of money? Do you live in one of the developed countries, or a 3rd world country?

I'm having a hard time figuring out how it could be rational to have 2 kids while making $500 a week. And why have children at all if you are working at a startup? Most of my friends follow the rule that startups are what you try while you are single, but if you have kids then you should try to find something more stable.

Re: Ask HN: Typical Startup or Abuse?

#80
Everyone else has already said how abusive this is, and hit the nail on the head with it, so I won't add to it, but I would like to say one thing:

You are worth far more as an employee than the meager salary and horrible relationship this guy has given you. Until you realize this, you will continue to be abused by future employers. You'll only be treated as well or as poorly as you let people treat you.

Hell, I am a fulltime employee with great benefits and a great salary, and I feel loyal to my company and team, but if my boss told me I needed to work from the hospital, I would tell him I was resigning immediately.

You need to stand up for yourself.

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