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Ancient Romans depicted Huns as barbarians – their bones tell a different story

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Re: Ancient Romans depicted Huns as barbarians – their bones tell a different story

#71
post #8
post #4

So, they weren't barbarians because some of them farmed? Seems to be a rather low bar.

Washington Post has become a rather low bar in general the last few years. I've stopped reading it all together and am disappointed to see the number of articles from it cropping up on HN lately. Also (off topic) they have begin a policy of shadowbanning commenters in their comment sections who disagree with their "official" policy on things. It's really barely one step above Brietbart now days in my opinion.

> Also (off topic) they have begin a policy of shadowbanning commenters in their comment sections who disagree with their "official" policy on things.

This policy is known to exist or you believe it does? Serious question.

Re: Ancient Romans depicted Huns as barbarians – their bones tell a different story

#72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't you get to vote where you live?

I get to vote but, in democracy, we are a drop in the ocean. In any case what's done is done, and if we've already waged war on them, it makes no sense to open our borders to them because most of them are bitter at us and some of them want to and have succeeded in killing us in our own soil. It's simply a security issue. There are millions of Muslims now scattered everywhere in Europe, and these last attacks are simp…

> I get to vote but, in democracy, we are a drop in the ocean.

No, we all together own the result and fractionally each of us. That's the price of living in a democracy, and one I gladly accept. In a dictatorship you could argue like you do (and even there there are options, but with a much higher personal price).

> In any case what's done is done, and if we've already waged war on them, it makes no sense to open our borders to them because most of them are bitter at us and some of them want to and have succeeded in killing us in our own soil.

That is a vanishingly small fraction of those entering. In fact, the vast majority would like nothing better than to turn back if not for the fact that their lives are in danger where they lived. Sure, there are people who move with economic motives, but those are even less likely to be a danger.

> It's simply a security issue.

Yes, it is a security issue. And you deal with that like you deal with any other security issue: through law enforcement.

> There are millions of Muslims now scattered everywhere in Europe, and these last attacks are simply the beginning.

Do you actually believe that these 'millions of Muslims' are going to pick up arms and attack the citizens of the countries they have shared their lives with and who for the most part employ them and ensure their bread is buttered over the silly statements of some dictator? What you'll likely see is some angry youths who might rebel, but that's not too far from what Western raised youths do when given half a chance. There are plenty of examples of that.

And given that if your name is 'Muhammed' or 'Mustafa' or your skin a little bit different than lily white they actually have some reasons to be upset.

> Now Erdogan can threaten us because he has a dormant army everywhere.

No, sorry, he really doesn't. Erdogan, for all his bluster is incapable of ruling Turkey the way he wants to without vast human rights violations, there is little to no chance of him being able to rouse the Turks in Western European societies in the numbers required to cause a real problem.

That does leave open the door to polarization and escalation, and because of that those need to be fought tooth and nail, we all of us living here, Turks, Morroccans (and their children, who usually have the nationality of the country they were born in), refugees and natives (who likely were refugees of some war a couple of generations back) need to work out our differences and settle on something long-term viable and give Erdogan the collective finger.

And for the most part, we are doing just that. A few hundred misguided people are not going to change anything, and there are plenty of misguided people in our own ranks.

Re: Ancient Romans depicted Huns as barbarians – their bones tell a different story

#74
post #56
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Some bones suggested that the individual was born into a roaming tribe but later settled down; others indicated the opposite lifestyle change. Not sure what history Susanne Hakenbeck studies, but asiatic hersdmen populations in Eastern Europe have a long documented history of looting for slaves. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean%E2%80%93Nogai_raids_in... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devshirme

If your argument is correct US and European slave trade in 19th and 20th century shows us what?

It shows that observed mixture of populations doesn't imply peaceful coexistence. Which refutes the main thesis of the article / research.

Re: Ancient Romans depicted Huns as barbarians – their bones tell a different story

#75
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would you consider 'respect your culture'? I've lived in Canada, I did not notice any culture that I should respect other than to learn the language and obey the laws. In other countries that I've lived in (Poland, Romania) it was much the same. And that's being an atheist in countries that were fairly religious. Do you want refugees to start acting like the locals in every respect? Do you want them to start wea…

"Refugees are the people that will help your descendants a few generations down the line when the tides have turned." Or you could increase your own birth rates, so your descendants can help your other descendants.

> Or you could increase your own birth rates, so your descendants can help your other descendants.

Birth rates are a result, not an input.

Re: Ancient Romans depicted Huns as barbarians – their bones tell a different story

#76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most terrorist acts in the U.S. are committed by white people, and the people pushing to make their religion the basis of law are also Christians, not Muslims. Your statements have no basis in facts or data, which leads me to suspect plain old racism.

Islam is not a race. Also, an act of terror by someone that just happens to be Christian is completely different than an act by someone doing it in the name of a religion, like Islam. "plain old racism" It's not racist to recognize patterns. You can't even draw Muhammad without getting death threats or even killed. The same can't be said about Jesus. The majority of the major terror attacks in the last 10 years have…

If you read upthread it was explained the final fall of the Roman Empire could be attributed to treating their refugees like dirt and lying to them.

Also, I'm currently in US and I don't feel my way of life is being destroyed by Muslim people. I think anti-Muslim sentiment is more of a negative influence on my life, as I work in academia and have had to deal with co workers and students being unable to continue research due to the immigration ban amongst other things. Also the whole "an Indian engineer was shot and killed by a white man for looking like a Muslim" that occurred recently has put fear into a lot of my peers, a significant chunk of them Indian or Pakistani. It's really kind of made my workplace tense and afraid whenever current events and the current political administration are brought up.

Most all major acts of terror in the USA have been by white people. I believe the vast majority have been by whites in the USA. In the last 10 years included. I don't see where you're getting the "major terror attacks" thing. In USA we had a stint where white men were shooting up schools and killing children practically every month. I'm pretty sure white people have committed more acts of mass killing in the USA than Islamic terrorists. Where is the pattern recognition here?

Anti-Islamic sentiment has long been regarded as applying to a lot more than Islamic people. Sikhs, Indians, anyone that looks "brown" enough gets the anti-Islamic sentiment. I've even had an anti-Islamic person tell me that there's a rule in the Quran that allows an Islamic person to lie about being Islamic if they feel they are in danger, and therefore you can never trust anyone who looks Islamic, because they could be lying about their belief in Islam. I'm not saying you personally agree with this, but these are also other anti-Islamic sentiments I've discussed with my peers. They seem to trend towards racism.

Re: Ancient Romans depicted Huns as barbarians – their bones tell a different story

#77

I thought by now we knew that Romans used the label "barbarian" on any group not Romans.

Came here to write this. I think it's the headline writer who made the error. The first part of the article just says the Romans thought they acted like animals. So the issue is really what was the culture of the Barbarians.

Re: Ancient Romans depicted Huns as barbarians – their bones tell a different story

#78
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most terrorist acts in the U.S. are committed by white people, and the people pushing to make their religion the basis of law are also Christians, not Muslims. Your statements have no basis in facts or data, which leads me to suspect plain old racism.

Gee, it is almost like white people make up a huge part of the population. Apply a little Bayes Theorem and visit back when you've run the numbers. Also, fwiw, Islam is not a race, hence you can't be racist for criticizing it. It is an ideological system. In that way it is no different than Democracy, Communism, Buddhism, Capitalism, Mormonism, Anarchism, etc, etc. Race doesn't define any of those ideologies either.…

Yeah, look at them evil Muslims.[1] Fundamentalists, every single one, right? Islam has issues, of course, just like any other ideology. Too bad the Wahhabis are largely successful in exporting their flavor of Islam.. but I guess that's what happens when you prop up oppressive regimes in the name of stability (and preferential access to natural resources).

[1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZIqdrFeFBk

Re: Ancient Romans depicted Huns as barbarians – their bones tell a different story

#79
post #43

Fun fact, "Barbarian" is a Greek word as a label for non-Greeks. To the Greeks, foreign languages just sounded like they were mumbling "bar-bar-bar", hence Barbarians = Non-Greeks.

I've heard this oft repeated over the decades. I wonder if there is a legitimate historical source for it.

Pretty sure this explanation is just really old speculation. Even if the ancient greeks kept records of word origins, those documents would likely be lost by now

Re: Ancient Romans depicted Huns as barbarians – their bones tell a different story

#80

Is it ironic that the Romans were great wall builders too?

At certain times they were, and their borders were very effective during the time they were powerful enough to defend them.

There're not much to be gained by such a generic statement about an entity that lasted 1000 years.

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