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The Sandstorm Team Is Joining Cloudflare

sandstorm.io

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Re: The Sandstorm Team Is Joining Cloudflare

#71

Can someone say how Cloudflare uses the Cap'n Proto rpc framework? I would be interested in hearing how this fits into a CDN architecture. Cheers.

At present they (uh, we, I suppose!) use the serialization only, for a variety of uses including (publicly disclosed) the log analysis system. I have some ideas where the RPC would be useful, though.

Re: The Sandstorm Team Is Joining Cloudflare

#72

Can someone say how Cloudflare uses the Cap'n Proto rpc framework? I would be interested in hearing how this fits into a CDN architecture. Cheers.

We use it for serializing log events between our Edge colos and our data processing datacenters. We chose it because it is a zero copy serialization protocol, as opposed to protobuf which doesn't do zero copy.

We don't currently use the RPC framework specifically though only the serialization.

Re: The Sandstorm Team Is Joining Cloudflare

#73

>Although Cloudflare recently suffered from a widely-reported security incident, their response was impressively fast and transparent. Really....seemed like they massively downplayed to me.

> Really....seemed like they massively downplayed to me.

The researchers massively overplayed the impact and the public massively misunderstood the effect.

Re: The Sandstorm Team Is Joining Cloudflare

#74
post #69
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems almost universally better? I can't think of any acquirer that would be more successful with Sandstorm than the founders themselves. Nobody I can think of is aligned with "users own their data" and big enough / cares enough to help Sandstorm gain adoption. Even Sandstorm not gaining traction with their B2B strategy is likely a blessing in disguise: with enterprise money coming in they would have felt a hard p…

> Now, they've proven that the enterprise route doesn't work. Well, no... I don't think we proved it didn't work, only that we lacked the expertise to make it work. With more time and some good hiring I think we could have fixed the problem, but the investor money ran out, so...

Ok, that might have been an oversimplification on my part, maybe "isn't a natural fit" would have been better. I'm sure there's enough value there that you could have eventually made a business out of it.

Re: The Sandstorm Team Is Joining Cloudflare

#75
post #63
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) Cap'n Proto doesn't encode/decode messages thus it's nuch cheaper for processing and memory management 2) protobuf in the proto3 design doesn't cary default values. So if you have a bool field and want to explicitly send false, well you have to change it to some other type or use the default values all the time 3) protobuf generates incredibly large serialization/deserialization support coce for each template. For…

Thanks. Those are pretty significant advantages. These things should be on the home page of the project. That's how smaller projects gain share.

The first one is, but as the obviously hyperbolic "infinitely faster" claim.

Re: The Sandstorm Team Is Joining Cloudflare

#76
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

re: "Doesn't encode/decode messages" Does this mean that individual fields are encoded/decoded lazily?

Well, you could look at it that way. But the "encoding" is the same encoding that an "int" field in a struct uses, and "decoding" it is a trivial load instruction.

At what point is byte ordering handled?

Re: The Sandstorm Team Is Joining Cloudflare

#77

Best of luck, kenton! If anyone is looking for alternatives: http://alternativeto.net/software/sandstorm-io/ . I think Cozy, Yunohost, Cloudron, arkOS are the closest alternatives (Bitnami is about 1-click images and DO/linode are about cloud servers). Would be great to hear about other alternatives...

Unless I missed something, none of these are capability-safe designs, whereas Sandstorm is capability-safe on the wire up to the edge of Capn Proto.

From the alternatives link "Sandstorm makes it easy to run your own server" and from their website "Sandstorm is a self-hostable web productivity suite". With that in mind, the alternatives seem reasonable.

Re: The Sandstorm Team Is Joining Cloudflare

#78
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, you could look at it that way. But the "encoding" is the same encoding that an "int" field in a struct uses, and "decoding" it is a trivial load instruction.

At what point is byte ordering handled?

The format is little-endian, so it's necessary to use a little-endian load instruction, which almost all architectures (including most big-endian architectures) have.

(But every widely-used arch these days is LE.)

Re: The Sandstorm Team Is Joining Cloudflare

#79

Can someone say how Cloudflare uses the Cap'n Proto rpc framework? I would be interested in hearing how this fits into a CDN architecture. Cheers.

Here's a blog post which talks a bit about how we use Cap'n Proto in production: https://blog.cloudflare.com/introducing-lua-capnproto-better...

Re: The Sandstorm Team Is Joining Cloudflare

#80
post #71

Can someone say how Cloudflare uses the Cap'n Proto rpc framework? I would be interested in hearing how this fits into a CDN architecture. Cheers.

At present they (uh, we, I suppose!) use the serialization only, for a variety of uses including (publicly disclosed) the log analysis system. I have some ideas where the RPC would be useful, though.

Thanks for the replies and the link(interesting), cheers.
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