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Bye Bye Emojis: Emacs Hates MacOS

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Re: Bye Bye Emojis: Emacs Hates MacOS

#71

Post by Annatar »

icebraining wrote: post #59
Annatar wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for this. It validates and reaffirms my hate of GNU. GNU is not UNIX, and no amount of "freedom" peddling changes the fact that it purposely violates UNIX principles. The only thing that could change that is their code (for example ditching info in favor of man pages, removing the z option in GNU tar, or dropping --long-options), and that's one thing they'll never change. I'm so glad I don't have to put up…

Is there any non-dead UNIX that doesn't, nowadays? The BSD tar also has -z, as does SmartOS. As much as I enjoy "cat -v considered harmful", it seems the battle is lost for UNIX itself. http://harmful.cat-v.org/cat-v/

At least on FreeBSD, I'm on BSD (don't have to use GNU), and on illumos / SmartOS I'm on AT&T System V release 4.0. As long as those alternatives exist GNU holds no power over me and provides no value that I care about, or need. Both BSD and SmartOS are free software.

Re: Bye Bye Emojis: Emacs Hates MacOS

#72

Post by abritinthebay »

pasquinelli wrote: post #46
lilyball wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Deliberately crippling your product on Apple platforms does not in any way "remind users that it is not in agreement with Apple's treatment of its users". In fact, it's fairly ironic that, in an attempt to protest someone else's treatment of users, Emacs has decided to treat its users badly. Deliberately crippling Emacs will not make Apple change, and will not get people to switch away from Apple platforms. But what…

is removing multicolor font support crippling emacs?

If you prefer it, or rely on it, yes. Yes, as far as a user is concerned it would be

Re: Bye Bye Emojis: Emacs Hates MacOS

#73

Post by efnx »

pasquinelli wrote: post #46
lilyball wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Deliberately crippling your product on Apple platforms does not in any way "remind users that it is not in agreement with Apple's treatment of its users". In fact, it's fairly ironic that, in an attempt to protest someone else's treatment of users, Emacs has decided to treat its users badly. Deliberately crippling Emacs will not make Apple change, and will not get people to switch away from Apple platforms. But what…

is removing multicolor font support crippling emacs?

It's a paper cut. On the right finger it could be crippling ️

Re: Bye Bye Emojis: Emacs Hates MacOS

#74

Post by ploxiln »

lilyball wrote: post #43
jordigh wrote: post #27

As one of GNU's flagship products, why shouldn't Emacs remind users that it is not in agreement with Apple's treatment of its users? GNU has an agenda, just like Apple does. Intel cripples icc for non-Intel CPUs, making it emit pessimised assembler. Apple makes sure that its hardware only works with other Apple products and that macOS can only be legally virtualised on Apple hardware. Everyone has an agenda. The diff…

Deliberately crippling your product on Apple platforms does not in any way "remind users that it is not in agreement with Apple's treatment of its users". In fact, it's fairly ironic that, in an attempt to protest someone else's treatment of users, Emacs has decided to treat its users badly. Deliberately crippling Emacs will not make Apple change, and will not get people to switch away from Apple platforms. But what…

Upstream GNU Emacs can no more be called "crippled" on macOS than it can be called "crippled" on linux, because on neither does it support multi-color emoticons. Maybe it seems "unfair" because macOS users could easily have the feature advantage over a free/libre OS user, but upstream GNU Emacs denies macOS the advantage.

It is kind of funny. But also funny because GNU's adherence to their licensing philosophy means it's just as easy for you to get the full macOS-enhanced fork. So the angst seems unreasonable to me.

(Also, the whole emoticon trend is pretty annoying, from an implementation perspective. First it was just B/W icons, fine. But then users wanted color, and now fonts have to do something they've never done before, embed multiple colors for a glyph. There were multiple proposals for font formats to do this, IIRC Microsoft proposed a new TrueType table with color references, and Mozilla proposed just stuffing most of SVG into OpenType, I didn't follow this story to the end. Fonts were already pretty complicated and prone to vulnerabilities, and this more than doubles that complication. But it gets better, now that there's color and high detail, in this brave new politically correct world we need to be able to have a range of skin tones and genders for all emoticons with a person in them! Now we need color and gender "zero-width" modifiers, multiple for small groups! More than double the complexity again! Can't we just go back to B/W symbols and let people use PNG/JPG/SVG if they want an arbitrary fucking picture?)

Re: Bye Bye Emojis: Emacs Hates MacOS

#75

Post by lilyball »

ploxiln wrote: post #74
lilyball wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Deliberately crippling your product on Apple platforms does not in any way "remind users that it is not in agreement with Apple's treatment of its users". In fact, it's fairly ironic that, in an attempt to protest someone else's treatment of users, Emacs has decided to treat its users badly. Deliberately crippling Emacs will not make Apple change, and will not get people to switch away from Apple platforms. But what…

Upstream GNU Emacs can no more be called "crippled" on macOS than it can be called "crippled" on linux, because on neither does it support multi-color emoticons. Maybe it seems "unfair" because macOS users could easily have the feature advantage over a free/libre OS user, but upstream GNU Emacs denies macOS the advantage. It is kind of funny. But also funny because GNU's adherence to their licensing philosophy means…

From the original article, Emacs had this feature, and then they removed it. That's crippling it. Deciding not to implement the feature in the first place, well, that's a reasonable decision given their desire for functionality to be cross-platform. But accepting it, then turning around and removing it later even though it was already implemented, that's just spite.

Re: Bye Bye Emojis: Emacs Hates MacOS

#76

Post by DonHopkins »

jordigh wrote: post #27

As one of GNU's flagship products, why shouldn't Emacs remind users that it is not in agreement with Apple's treatment of its users? GNU has an agenda, just like Apple does. Intel cripples icc for non-Intel CPUs, making it emit pessimised assembler. Apple makes sure that its hardware only works with other Apple products and that macOS can only be legally virtualised on Apple hardware. Everyone has an agenda. The diff…

U+1F644 [1]

[1] http://unicode.org/emoji/charts/full-emoji-list.html#1f644

Re: Bye Bye Emojis: Emacs Hates MacOS

#77

Post by gkya »

Annatar wrote: post #66
jimmies wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just as if you don't agree with Apple, you are welcome to use the alternatives. If you don't agree with GNU, you are welcome to use the alternatives.

That's exactly how this is going to go down, at least in my case.

Well if you'll switch away from Emacs because of coloured typeface, they you're not using Emacs at all anyways, so farewell.

Re: Bye Bye Emojis: Emacs Hates MacOS

#79

Post by DonHopkins »

Annatar wrote: post #58
jordigh wrote: post #27

As one of GNU's flagship products, why shouldn't Emacs remind users that it is not in agreement with Apple's treatment of its users? GNU has an agenda, just like Apple does. Intel cripples icc for non-Intel CPUs, making it emit pessimised assembler. Apple makes sure that its hardware only works with other Apple products and that macOS can only be legally virtualised on Apple hardware. Everyone has an agenda. The diff…

You should not identify yourself with Apple's operating system. If I want I will identify myself with whatever I decide to identify myself with; I don't really care about Apple, but now you've turned it into a matter of principle, moralizing what people shouldn't do. You should not identify yourself with GNU/Linux. How did you like that? How about identifying oneself with JustWorks(SM), vertical integration, and thin…

I've always identified with ProDOS.
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