Microsoft is now a braver, more innovative company than Apple • Hacker News Board

Re: Microsoft is now a braver, more innovative company than Apple

#71

Post by Lio » Mon, Oct 31, 2016, 11:02 AM UTC

dstryr wrote: post #56

delegate wrote: post #37

I wonder how much propaganda do we read every day ? Tip: A lot. I think that almost every piece of information which is not pure art or mathematical formulas - is some sort of propaganda.. Meaning someone somewhere is pushing his own agenda, directly or indirectly. It is strategically wise for Apple competitors to put out all kinds of negative articles right now. Apple does something unpopular - use that as a lever t…

I agree with you that we are constantly bombarded with propaganda, but a lot of the backlash is coming from long-time Apple users such as myself, who feel that Apple is no longer making computers for us. And you know what? That's perfectly fine, they're a business and are catering to the high end where the margins are best. The proof is littered all over HN and Reddit where blog posts all begin with the same defense,…

I agree in that I wish there were better generic Linux laptop alternatives to Apple but I find something very distasteful about a company like Xiaomi.

They're not quite passing off their goods as Apple's but they're not far off it.

Apple's current vision might not be my current vision but at least it's authentically theirs.

Re: Microsoft is now a braver, more innovative company than Apple

#72

Post by hyperbovine » Mon, Oct 31, 2016, 11:03 AM UTC

scandox wrote: post #47

Office 365 does not support opening CSV files and we're supposed to call them innovative?

Well, they do appear to be first to market with this "feature".

Re: Microsoft is now a braver, more innovative company than Apple

#73

Post by simonh » Mon, Oct 31, 2016, 11:07 AM UTC

The central premise is that Apple isn't innovative anymore. Let's look at the technologies Apple has materially advanced over the last few years.

* Custom screen technology leap-frogging 4K displays directly to 5K, at a full-system price below that of a 4K screen alone from competitors at the time.

* wide colour gamut screen tech putting them several years ahead of the competition.

* Brand new screen digitiser technology in the iPad Pros that also puts them several years ahead of any of their competitors.

* 3D Touch technology nobody else even appears to have a path to implementing because it requires such close design integration with the hardware and software.

* mobile processor designs putting them years ahead of any of their competitors in yet another technology category.

* A new variant of iOS (Watch OS) that's now powering two completely different product categories.

I venture to suggest that the death of innovation at Apple is being declared somewhat prematurely.

Re: Microsoft is now a braver, more innovative company than Apple

#74

Post by nicky0 » Mon, Oct 31, 2016, 11:08 AM UTC

lmm wrote: post #57

whytaka wrote: post #26

Microsoft is innovative because you can now purchase a dedicated hardware peripheral for some software feature the touchscreen was designed to replace. Let's completely forget that Microsoft 'upgrades' your OS without your permission, spies on you, embeds ads into the Start Menu, and their OEMs like Lenovo will listen in on everything you do at the hardware level. In my opinion, these are actual reasons a company sho…

> spies on you Any reason to believe MS does this more than Apple does? > their OEMs like Lenovo will listen in on everything you do at the hardware level. MS making their own hardware looks to be at least partially a response to that. > - build quality machines that seemingly never wanes in performance while provide enduring support that make them last so much longer than their competitors that it shifts the arithme…

It wasn't always the case, but you are now allowed to run macOS in a VM on Apple hardware.

Re: Microsoft is now a braver, more innovative company than Apple

#75

Post by audunw » Mon, Oct 31, 2016, 11:08 AM UTC

MrScruff wrote: post #9

This is a bizarre comparison. The Surface Studio is not in competition with the MacBook Pro. It's closest analogue is something like the iPad Pro with a stand I guess. Apple will not be making a direct competitor to the Surface Studio because they aren't going to make a touch screen MacOS (the right decision IMO). I mean the Studio looks nice if you're an illustrator but there's no obligation to compete with every ni…

> because they aren't going to make a touch screen MacOS (the right decision IMO).

I think a lot boils down to this.

People think "innovation" is making laptops into tablets. Seeing how many times Microsoft failed here, I agree that this is not the right decision.

Maybe Microsoft is starting getting it right with Windows 10. But they've failed so many times up until now, and it's still not clear that they've nailed it yet.

A key to good innovation, is to have the right innovation at the right time. Microsoft has tried to innovate by doing the same thing over and over, in different ways, until it succeeds. This may be fine for Microsoft, but it's in Apples culture to try to innovate by not innovating until they're sure they can get it right at the first try.

Re: Microsoft is now a braver, more innovative company than Apple

#76

Post by jamesrcole » Mon, Oct 31, 2016, 11:15 AM UTC

rorykoehler wrote: post #50

hanief wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMHO, Apple removing headphone jack and legacy ports is exactly the kind of things that opposite of having "toner heads" running the company. If "toner heads" are really running Apple they will be scared taking the risk and moving forward because they know it will hurt sales. If "toner heads" are really running Apple they will not take the risks of creating a new interaction model with unproven reception among custom…

The headphone jack is not a legacy port. It is the single most impressive industrial design for a port in history. That's the reason it lasted so long and also the reason it will outlive any wireless nonsense apple brings out to increase their landfill impact.

Speaking for myself, I hate headphone cables. They always get knotted up when stored away, and they're always getting caught on things while I'm wearing the headphones.

I'm looking forwards to when wireless headphones are more ubiquitous and cheaper.

Re: Microsoft is now a braver, more innovative company than Apple

#77

Post by OliverJones » Mon, Oct 31, 2016, 11:19 AM UTC

Not being a designer who can justify a giant touchscreen, I don't know much about that aspect of these new products.

But I do know Microsoft seems to be escaping the "BinG" (Ballmer is not Gates) era. They no longer assume their customers are all either fleecable home users or large orgs with deep pockets. Under Nadella, they've made life much easier for independent and small developers.

It's good to applaud innovation. The mac vs. pc argument has been entirely boring for an entire generation now.

Re: Microsoft is now a braver, more innovative company than Apple

#78

Post by alvarosevilla95 » Mon, Oct 31, 2016, 11:21 AM UTC

systemtest wrote: post #49

whytaka wrote: post #26

Microsoft is innovative because you can now purchase a dedicated hardware peripheral for some software feature the touchscreen was designed to replace. Let's completely forget that Microsoft 'upgrades' your OS without your permission, spies on you, embeds ads into the Start Menu, and their OEMs like Lenovo will listen in on everything you do at the hardware level. In my opinion, these are actual reasons a company sho…

I bought the first 13" Macbook Pro with the Thunderbolt port, expecting the whole world to switch to Thunderbolt in a couple of years. It was predicted that there would be Macbooks in the future with only Thunderbolt ports, as it could connect to everything. Guess what, that didn't happen. It became a high-end niche market. Not saying that that's where USB-C will be going but I have a bad feeling about this.

There's a big difference between thunderbolt and thunderbolt 3/usb c. The former was proprietary by Apple/Intel, and very expensive, so no one else added it to their machines, and onlu very high end accessories included it. Usb C is the new standard that is already being adopted by most manufacturers, so I'm very confident it will spread quite fast. Not saying that launching a professional laptop in 2016 with just 4 usb c ports was a good idea though, but I guess they're really pushing for the standard to be adopted as quick as possible.

Re: Microsoft is now a braver, more innovative company than Apple

#79

Post by mmastrac » Mon, Oct 31, 2016, 11:22 AM UTC

systemtest wrote: post #49

whytaka wrote: post #26

Microsoft is innovative because you can now purchase a dedicated hardware peripheral for some software feature the touchscreen was designed to replace. Let's completely forget that Microsoft 'upgrades' your OS without your permission, spies on you, embeds ads into the Start Menu, and their OEMs like Lenovo will listen in on everything you do at the hardware level. In my opinion, these are actual reasons a company sho…

I bought the first 13" Macbook Pro with the Thunderbolt port, expecting the whole world to switch to Thunderbolt in a couple of years. It was predicted that there would be Macbooks in the future with only Thunderbolt ports, as it could connect to everything. Guess what, that didn't happen. It became a high-end niche market. Not saying that that's where USB-C will be going but I have a bad feeling about this.

USB-C has a better chance, being effectively USB under the hood with a better connector. There were zero thunderbolt phones. I'm typing this comment on a Pixel with a C port.

90%+ released phones will have USB-C in late 2017 I wager. The alternative mode stuff may take a year or two to sort out though

Re: Microsoft is now a braver, more innovative company than Apple

#80

Post by croon » Mon, Oct 31, 2016, 11:23 AM UTC

systemtest wrote: post #49

whytaka wrote: post #26

Microsoft is innovative because you can now purchase a dedicated hardware peripheral for some software feature the touchscreen was designed to replace. Let's completely forget that Microsoft 'upgrades' your OS without your permission, spies on you, embeds ads into the Start Menu, and their OEMs like Lenovo will listen in on everything you do at the hardware level. In my opinion, these are actual reasons a company sho…

I bought the first 13" Macbook Pro with the Thunderbolt port, expecting the whole world to switch to Thunderbolt in a couple of years. It was predicted that there would be Macbooks in the future with only Thunderbolt ports, as it could connect to everything. Guess what, that didn't happen. It became a high-end niche market. Not saying that that's where USB-C will be going but I have a bad feeling about this.

No, USB-C will be standard. What happened to Thunderbolt is what will happen to Lightning. USB-C is here to stay, and they should've put it in iPhone 7 as well.