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Apple Slaps Developers In The Face

theflashblog.com

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Re: Apple Slaps Developers In The Face

#71

Post by [deleted] »

abstractbill wrote: post #66
tcdent wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree that Apple isn't forcing developers onto the Mac from a financial perspective, I think it's in their best interest to promote it from a holistic one. Indie Mac developers think a little differently than any other, and it's a direct result of the influence from Apple's UX aesthetic. There is immense respect for the conventions that have been established, and any feature that breaks away from them better…

While I agree that Apple isn't forcing developers onto the Mac from a financial perspective, I think it's in their best interest to promote it from a holistic one. The funny thing is, Apple has been promoting their platform to developers for years by making it a Unix that just works. And now they're un- promoting it by having a bunch of developer-hostile policies.

[deleted]

Re: Apple Slaps Developers In The Face

#72

Post by houseabsolute »

pyre wrote: post #67
houseabsolute wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

False dichotomy.

Don't assume that he's presenting Adobe's only alternate course of action. He's taking two different courses of action taken by two different companies and asking the reader to compare them.

The problem is that his comment is totally irrelevant. Whether what Adobe is doing is better than what Apple is doing has zero bearing on whether it's the best thing for Adobe to do, which is what my comment was about. The rhetorical tactic he was employing was to make it seem as if there are only two options, be Apple or be Adobe as it is in this post. That rhetorical dichotomy is misleading, even if he wasn't making an exclusive logical statement.

Re: Apple Slaps Developers In The Face

#73

Post by houseabsolute »

ilike wrote: post #59
houseabsolute wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Now let me put aside my role as an official representative of Adobe for a moment . . .

"Disclaimer -- This is my personal blog. The opinions expressed here do not necessarily reflect those of my employer. "

Nonetheless, he claimed in this post that he was speaking as Adobe's representative. In my mind, if you explicitly make that claim, all the disclaimers in the boilerplate avail you nothing.

Re: Apple Slaps Developers In The Face

#74

Post by Raphael_Amiard »

mdasen wrote: post #25

So, there are a couple things here that jump to my mind. 1. Adobe isn't completely innocent. They're pretty close to a monopoly on their type of software and charge dearly for it (their Creative Suite costs as much as a MacBook Pro). They've done a lot to make sure there are no non-Adobe Flash players even when that's just hurting customers and not costing them money since they don't sell the player. They're not exac…

>1. Adobe isn't completely innocent.

Who cares about a company being "innocent" ? What does that even mean ?

>(their Creative Suite costs as much as a MacBook Pro)

Do you have a serious study saying that Creative Suite is overpriced ? Because it doesn't look that way to me. And what does that even have to do with anything ?

>I'm sure they don't want to deal with developers using up their support time over things that are the fault of Adobe's Flash SDK or Novell's C# one.

So they could have added a clause to the dev agreement saying they won't support the dev choosing to go with other SDK's or languages. That would have been a TOTALLY different story no ?

> 3. It's also in Apple's interest to [...]

Of course it's in Apple's interest. The way they're ready to alienate a non negligible part of their partner's base (because that's what devs should be, partners) for their short term interrest is kind of scary though. I even really doubt it's a clever strategy if you consider Apple's interest alone.

>Do I like Apple's stance? No. As a user and a developer, it's bad for me. However, Apple's the market leader and getting people to use their API gives them control

However what ? You know the problem isn't even the fact that the platform is closed to others languages. If it has been like that from the beginning of the IPhone/Ipad, it wouldn't be the same problem at all. The real problem in this story is that Apple is ready to screw other peoples businesses. It reminds me of the Playstation3/Linux story, in some ways. People have invested time and money in this platform, and yet Apple decides to change the terms of the game and screw them over completely. The fact that they have the right to do it doesn't make it right. It's immoral and wrong.

> Adobe isn't known for being open. Given the chance, Adobe seems to wall itself off as much as Apple.

Examples please. I may have forgotten some things, but on the top of my mind, i can't find anything even remotely similar to this.

Re: Apple Slaps Developers In The Face

#75

Post by rbanffy »

mdasen wrote: post #25

So, there are a couple things here that jump to my mind. 1. Adobe isn't completely innocent. They're pretty close to a monopoly on their type of software and charge dearly for it (their Creative Suite costs as much as a MacBook Pro). They've done a lot to make sure there are no non-Adobe Flash players even when that's just hurting customers and not costing them money since they don't sell the player. They're not exac…

> It brings developers to the Mac by forcing them to buy one

No. Thanks. I have no urge to develop for iPhone, iPod or iPad, much less in Objective C.

I think I am gonna pass this one. ;-)

Re: Apple Slaps Developers In The Face

#76

Post by rbanffy »

philwelch wrote: post #41
bilbo0s wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly, they won't make the same mistake twice. History is foremost in everyone's mind right now.

Ironically, if Jobs wasn't pushed out in 1985, Apple would have gone bankrupt even faster. Jobs' perfectionism is an asset now that he's let it be ever-so-slightly compromised by market necessities, but the Mac wouldn't have been a viable platform into the 1990's if, as Steve continued to insist, they not include a hard drive or any fans. His same perfectionism over the NeXT cube (and over such details as which shade…

> Jobs' perfectionism is an asset now

You know that "too much of a good thing" thing, right?

Re: Apple Slaps Developers In The Face

#77

Post by houseabsolute »

smackfu wrote: post #70
houseabsolute wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

False dichotomy.

Professional doesn't equal good, is what I was going for. Professional just means they are smiling when they stab you.

Again, these two continuums are completely unrelated.

Stab Not Stab

Professional Not Professional

My claim is that a professional, not-stab approach would be more effective than a not-professional, not-stab approach. To me it seems like this is a bit difficult to argue against, but I suppose it's possible that this temper tantrum post will be more effective than a strong-but-professionally-worded post in the same direction. Maybe you disagree.

Regardless of whether you do, comparing Apple's behavior to Adobe's is irrelevant and misleading. Comparing the two might incorrectly lead people to believe that this post is a good idea because it compares favorably with what Apple has done. In fact, whether this post is a good idea is completely unrelated to how bad Apple's behavior is.

Re: Apple Slaps Developers In The Face

#78

Post by rbanffy »

nopal wrote: post #64

Any real developer would not in good conscience be able to support this. I hate such broad-sweeping statements. What is clear is that Apple most definitely would [abuse their loyal users and make them pawns for the sake of trying to hurt another company]. Apple has always been about the experience of using their products, and I think a lot of what they're doing with their mobile devices still stems from that focus. M…

> Any real developer would not in good conscience be able to support this.

> I hate such broad-sweeping statements.

I know no "real developer" who really likes Flash either, so, I find all this "oh no we want Flash" thing rather amusing.

Re: Apple Slaps Developers In The Face

#79

Post by 0x44 »

Raphael_Amiard wrote: post #74
mdasen wrote: post #25

So, there are a couple things here that jump to my mind. 1. Adobe isn't completely innocent. They're pretty close to a monopoly on their type of software and charge dearly for it (their Creative Suite costs as much as a MacBook Pro). They've done a lot to make sure there are no non-Adobe Flash players even when that's just hurting customers and not costing them money since they don't sell the player. They're not exac…

>1. Adobe isn't completely innocent. Who cares about a company being "innocent" ? What does that even mean ? >(their Creative Suite costs as much as a MacBook Pro) Do you have a serious study saying that Creative Suite is overpriced ? Because it doesn't look that way to me. And what does that even have to do with anything ? >I'm sure they don't want to deal with developers using up their support time over things that…

  People have invested time and money in this platform, and yet Apple decides to 
  change the terms of the game and screw them over completely.
Investing in a platform does not guarantee you'll profit from your investment, nor does it oblige the provider to continue providing you the means to recoup your investment.

Re: Apple Slaps Developers In The Face

#80

Post by rbanffy »

rbanffy wrote: post #78
nopal wrote: post #64

Any real developer would not in good conscience be able to support this. I hate such broad-sweeping statements. What is clear is that Apple most definitely would [abuse their loyal users and make them pawns for the sake of trying to hurt another company]. Apple has always been about the experience of using their products, and I think a lot of what they're doing with their mobile devices still stems from that focus. M…

> Any real developer would not in good conscience be able to support this. > I hate such broad-sweeping statements. I know no "real developer" who really likes Flash either, so, I find all this "oh no we want Flash" thing rather amusing.

What?! Do you really like ActionScript?
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