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Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency

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Re: Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency

#71

Post by Broken_Hippo »

tigershark wrote: post #61
hasbroslasher wrote: post #40

Always amazes me that LSD is illegal while alcohol is legal, the latter causing all host of metal and physical ailments, the former causing mostly hilarious navel-gazing

It always amazes me how many people on HN trivialise extremely dangerous drugs saying that alcohol is more dangerous. I'd rather stay in a room with someone that drinks a glass of wine a day than with someone that assumes LSD every day.

First, it is pretty rare for folks to take LSD daily, outside of the current trend of microdosing for treating depression, etc. In this case, it seems generally no more faulty than a glass of wine a day. Besides, this is comparing apples to oranges - you'd need to compare an alcoholic, drinking vodka, to the daily user for that to be an apt comparison. And honestly, at that point I'm not too sure who I want to spend time with.

In addition, the comparison would work better with pot. Would you rather spend time with someone drinking a bit or that smokes a bowl every night? That gets to be a much more fuzzy.

In addition, there are questions like: Assiming folks are taking as many responsible precautions as would be expected, is it better to get wasted by alcohol once a month or two or to take some lsd once a month or two? What about once or twice a year? These sorts of questions are closer to mimicking most folks' use of lsd.

But most folks use such things in a much more responsible manner. Occasionally. There will be outliers, just like alcohol. Most folks don't get addicted: 25% of heroin users might, and the rest is at 10% or less (Source: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/aug/26/neil-woods-u...).

As far as dangers are concerned: Part of the danger is not having honest sources and not having access to good information (think about how much more dangerous alcohol was during prohibition). Sure, there is a risk of addiction, but you have that with alcohol, prescription drugs, gambling, and a myriad of other things. Effects on society are heaviest on the illegal things because of the illegality. Current laws would cover a lot of the other 'dangers' much as they do with alcohol (don't be violent, take care of your kids, drive sober). We can regulate potency much like we do with alcohol. Sure, some things can be dangerous, but most folks aren't doing it in those ways. Just like alcohol. We just hear about the bad stuff more because of the political and moral stance on them.

Re: Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency

#73

Post by wastedhours »

Nursie wrote: post #68
wastedhours wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm intrigued by this line of argument - have always assumed it's mainly because alcohol can be enjoyed on its own merits, whereas most drugs are taken solely for the impact on the mind (e.g. wine for taste etc...).

If it wasn't for the effect, nobody would bother acquiring the taste for beer or wine... Alcohol is, for the vast majority of the time, taken solely for the impact on the mind.

Really? I know I have no data to back up my point that all drugs are only taken for their impact on the mind, but I know that alcohol isn't solely taken for its impact on the mind.

Wine is tasty. Beer is tasty. Brandy is tasty. And (anecdotally) know many people who aren't just drinking them to get out of their heads...

Re: Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency

#74

Post by eggy »

bogomipz wrote: post #70
eggy wrote: post #48

It's crazy to spend that much time in jail for a nonviolent offense, and such a small amount of substance in the US. The war on drugs is a big waste of many things. But to put it in perspective, I am currently living in SE Asia where you are informed by airline announcements and signs that drug trafficking is punishable by death in several of the countries here! I'm from Brooklyn, but I live in Indonesia now. I'm cur…

It wasn't an 'offense' it was plural 'offenses' as in three. And we aren't talking about personal possession we are talking about intent to distribute. The distinction between these are night and day.

I read that, and I get your point, but LSD, or marijuana, to me are not in the same league as heroin or cocaine and the amounts those are usually traded in along with the gangs and violence associated with them. I'm not at all addressing the law; I am expressing surprise over the extreme sentence in comparison to what I think are worse crimes. Rapists get what, 4 years in the US if prosecuted? There were/are people serving life sentences over marijuana sales, and now it's legal in some states.

Re: Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency

#75

Post by fnj »

I get that the right to consume any substance one wants into one's own body is a basic human right, but outlawing LSD and cannabis are two cases of outrageous, striking dumbness and pointlessness. Neither one is addictive, and the LD50 of each is an incredible number of orders of magnitude higher than a normal dose. It is virtually impossible to harm yourself.

Re: Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency

#76

Post by bogomipz »

Nursie wrote: post #67
bogomipz wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The carrier weight is significant because its proportional to the amount of substance, the paper is the distribution vector. Someone caught with a sheet of LSD is carrying significantly more than a single tab of LSD. The latter defying "personal consumption. And personal consumption vs intent to distribute is significantly different. While I don't believe that non-violent drug offenders should be locked up for life,…

Carrier weight is really dumb because someone carrying a 1g crystal has up to 10,000 doses on their person, 1g of paper, not so much.

LSD doses are measured in micrograms so 1 gram is in fact a substantial amount. Do the research. Theres a difference between opinion and fact.

https://erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd_dose.shtml

Re: Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency

#77

Post by leoedin »

tigershark wrote: post #61
hasbroslasher wrote: post #40

Always amazes me that LSD is illegal while alcohol is legal, the latter causing all host of metal and physical ailments, the former causing mostly hilarious navel-gazing

It always amazes me how many people on HN trivialise extremely dangerous drugs saying that alcohol is more dangerous. I'd rather stay in a room with someone that drinks a glass of wine a day than with someone that assumes LSD every day.

And I'd much rather go to a music festival with someone on LSD than someone who's drank loads of alcohol.

I'm curious though - have you ever been around people on LSD? There's a huge amount of misinformation about it.

Re: Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency

#78

Post by andrei_says_ »

fnj wrote: post #75

I get that the right to consume any substance one wants into one's own body is a basic human right, but outlawing LSD and cannabis are two cases of outrageous, striking dumbness and pointlessness. Neither one is addictive, and the LD50 of each is an incredible number of orders of magnitude higher than a normal dose. It is virtually impossible to harm yourself.

> I started to ask Ehrlichman a series of earnest, wonky questions that he impatiently waved away. “You want to know what this was really all about?” he asked with the bluntness of a man who, after public disgrace and a stretch in federal prison, had little left to protect. “The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I’m saying? We knew we couldn’t make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders, raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did.”

Self harm never had anything to do with anything.

Re: Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency

#79

Post by hutzlibu »

fnj wrote: post #75

I get that the right to consume any substance one wants into one's own body is a basic human right, but outlawing LSD and cannabis are two cases of outrageous, striking dumbness and pointlessness. Neither one is addictive, and the LD50 of each is an incredible number of orders of magnitude higher than a normal dose. It is virtually impossible to harm yourself.

While I do agree that it is a human right to consume anything you want, I very much disagree that "It is virtually impossible to harm yourself" with LSD or Ganja ...

Just because you can't really physically kill yourself with the drug, doesn't mean it can't do you bad otherwise.

Re: Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency

#80

Post by Gibbon1 »

hasbroslasher wrote: post #40

Always amazes me that LSD is illegal while alcohol is legal, the latter causing all host of metal and physical ailments, the former causing mostly hilarious navel-gazing

LSD is illegal because of 60's era moral panic, plus the drug companies trying to divert attention away from the harm that amphetamines were causing.
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