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Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars

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Re: Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars

#71

Post by transfire »

icebraining wrote: post #28
transfire wrote: post #9

On some superblocks it seems to me they could connect the corner blocks instead of the center block as the one way lanes. This would leave the old middle roads free of cars altogether giving pedestrians more space and maybe let the cars go a little faster (10 km/h is rather unbearably slow slow).

We're only talking about 200m stretches, so even at 10km/h it's only a couple of minutes max.

I can't even make my car go that slow without tapping the break. We have kids that play in the streets in my community, most people go the speed limit 20mph and we have no problems. Just saying 6mph is really really slow.

Re: Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars

#72

Post by transfire »

masklinn wrote: post #64
transfire wrote: post #9

On some superblocks it seems to me they could connect the corner blocks instead of the center block as the one way lanes. This would leave the old middle roads free of cars altogether giving pedestrians more space and maybe let the cars go a little faster (10 km/h is rather unbearably slow slow).

> On some superblocks it seems to me they could connect the corner blocks instead of the center block as the one way lanes. > This would leave the old middle roads free of cars altogether giving pedestrians more space You seem to be missing the point entirely. The in-block roads are for when you have something to do in the block, which is why you can't cross a block through them (they loop and send you back the way y…

I didn't miss the point. I just think some blocks might benefit more from the different arrangement. It's a trade off.

Re: Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars

#73

Post by tantivy »

massysett wrote: post #48
jurip wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd expect the total automobile traffic to be reduced, rather than all of it concentrating on the through streets. Making driving less convenient will push people who don't have to drive to leave their cars at home and go with public transport, bike or foot instead.

It can also do a number of other things: * cause people not to travel at all, thus keeping money in their pockets rather than spending it to benefit the economy * cause people who do not live in the city to drive to other places--places where their preferred mode of transportation is accommodated--to work or transact business * cause people who live in the city to leave due to increasing frustration with their inabil…

I'd hypothesize that your car fetishists are egotistical and hazardous drivers when they're sharing streets with pedestrians and cyclists. City centers wouldn't miss them.

Re: Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars

#74

Post by snthd »

bb101 wrote: post #7

Very interesting idea. However, losing two through-streets out of every three will triple the traffic on the remaining through-street. The people living on the interior of the superblocks will enjoy a more peaceful car-free environment, but the people overlooking the through-streets will experience more noise, pollution and congestion. I wonder how Barcelona plans to compensate the residents of through-streets for th…

It's an equilibrium thing. People only have a certain tolerance for bad traffic, so to some extent as congestion increases fewer people drive. And vice versa.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disappearing_traffic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smeed's_law

Re: Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars

#76

Post by Someone »

Counterpoint: http://behoovingmoving.com/2016/08/06/superblock-hopscotch-i...:

"The new bollards that will be planted to stop cars cutting through the middle of the superblocks won’t stop that menace of the Mediterranean, the motor scooter rider"

"In Barcelona two out of three streets will be easy to cross, but make a mistake when crossing the third"

I think this is a worthy experiment, but I wouldn't roll it out across the city without knowing whether it will work.

Because to me, the existing blocks simply look too massive to become a truly pedestrian neighborhood, I also would look for ways to cut paths through some of the blocks.

Re: Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars

#77

Post by masklinn »

transfire wrote: post #72
masklinn wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> On some superblocks it seems to me they could connect the corner blocks instead of the center block as the one way lanes. > This would leave the old middle roads free of cars altogether giving pedestrians more space You seem to be missing the point entirely. The in-block roads are for when you have something to do in the block, which is why you can't cross a block through them (they loop and send you back the way y…

I didn't miss the point. I just think some blocks might benefit more from the different arrangement. It's a trade off.

The trade off is in not banning motor vehicles entirely from superblocks.

Re: Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars

#78

Post by ef4 »

bb101 wrote: post #7

Very interesting idea. However, losing two through-streets out of every three will triple the traffic on the remaining through-street. The people living on the interior of the superblocks will enjoy a more peaceful car-free environment, but the people overlooking the through-streets will experience more noise, pollution and congestion. I wonder how Barcelona plans to compensate the residents of through-streets for th…

> will triple the traffic on the remaining through-street.

It is almost certainly less than triple, because of latent demand.

Re: Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars

#79

Post by gkya »

throwaway287391 wrote: post #68
gkya wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not just hop on a bus then? How is it different?

I have to say, it kind of blows my mind that someone could not see the difference in user experience between a bus and an Uber/Lyft... Even in the absolute best case scenario for the bus, where there's a perfect bus route from where you are now to your destination and there's a bus leaving exactly when you get to the stop, Uber/Lyft is still clearly better, and that best case scenario for the bus almost never occurs.

I can easily see the difference, but I am no lord or duke, and thus not be bothered if sometimes my voyage is a bit uncomfortable. It's (edit: I meant public transport in general) cheaper, better for the environment, more social, certainly more secure than a random multinational company, quicker than any other option besides the motorbike, and helps free the roads for emergencies like ambulances carrying ill or wounded people. Now if infrastructure where you are is sub par, that's an infrastructure problem, not a defect of the medium.

Edit: I really want to add that I detest uber and the like for attempting to kill local businesses replacing them with lower quality cheaper services.

Re: Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars

#80

Post by mtone »

jsprogrammer wrote: post #70
throwaway287391 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to say, it kind of blows my mind that someone could not see the difference in user experience between a bus and an Uber/Lyft... Even in the absolute best case scenario for the bus, where there's a perfect bus route from where you are now to your destination and there's a bus leaving exactly when you get to the stop, Uber/Lyft is still clearly better, and that best case scenario for the bus almost never occurs.

I've never seen an Uber/Lyft vehicle I could stand in.

But standing in a bus is part of the worst case scenario.
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