Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars • Hacker News Board

Re: Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars

#61

Post by kristiandupont » Sat, Aug 06, 2016, 5:37 PM UTC

enjoylife wrote: post #33

I just came back from an extended trip in Barcelona, and I saw first hand how there is plenty of wasted space in neighborhoods. Many intersections between dense housing areas are overly large hexagons where you must annoyingly walk around dedicated parking spaces to cross streets. https://www.flickr.com/photos/16nine/22802717995 Hopefully the city will have buy-in from the residents, as this plan seems to also modify…

In my opinion, those blocks (known as Cerdá's manzanas) create a much nicer space than normal ones. It also seems safer traffic-wise. True, it takes a bit longer to cross as a pedestrian but I think that's worth the price.

Re: Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars

#62

Post by goldfeld » Sat, Aug 06, 2016, 5:37 PM UTC

massysett wrote: post #48

jurip wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd expect the total automobile traffic to be reduced, rather than all of it concentrating on the through streets. Making driving less convenient will push people who don't have to drive to leave their cars at home and go with public transport, bike or foot instead.

It can also do a number of other things: * cause people not to travel at all, thus keeping money in their pockets rather than spending it to benefit the economy * cause people who do not live in the city to drive to other places--places where their preferred mode of transportation is accommodated--to work or transact business * cause people who live in the city to leave due to increasing frustration with their inabil…

Luckily they can go to a number of other cities that accomodate their needs!

Re: Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars

#63

Post by bluthru » Sat, Aug 06, 2016, 5:39 PM UTC

Avshalom wrote: post #42

happyslobro wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could send the car back home after it drops you off, or release it to pick up someone else. That is, if it is fully autonomous. I suspect that long before then, the "self driving" term is going to get abused by marketing until it means nothing more than "autonomously maintains RPM relative to pedal angle".

Well on one hand you can move parking lots, on the other hand you end up with a lot of empty cars driving around which means even more traffic.

Those cars can be bumper-to-bumper if they're all automated.

Re: Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars

#64

Post by masklinn » Sat, Aug 06, 2016, 5:41 PM UTC

transfire wrote: post #9

On some superblocks it seems to me they could connect the corner blocks instead of the center block as the one way lanes. This would leave the old middle roads free of cars altogether giving pedestrians more space and maybe let the cars go a little faster (10 km/h is rather unbearably slow slow).

> On some superblocks it seems to me they could connect the corner blocks instead of the center block as the one way lanes.

> This would leave the old middle roads free of cars altogether giving pedestrians more space

You seem to be missing the point entirely. The in-block roads are for when you have something to do in the block, which is why you can't cross a block through them (they loop and send you back the way you came from). You arrive, you do your thing and you leave. The entire block is pedestrian space, which is why the speed limit is pedestrian range.

> maybe let the cars go a little faster (10 km/h is rather unbearably slow slow).

1. that would defeat the entire point of superblocks by still having fast vehicles within them

2. at 400m long, in-block loops can be traversed entirely in 2mn, since you've got something to do there (otherwise you'd go around the superblock) that seems perfectly fine.

Re: Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars

#65

Post by vecinu » Sat, Aug 06, 2016, 5:51 PM UTC

enjoylife wrote: post #33

I just came back from an extended trip in Barcelona, and I saw first hand how there is plenty of wasted space in neighborhoods. Many intersections between dense housing areas are overly large hexagons where you must annoyingly walk around dedicated parking spaces to cross streets. https://www.flickr.com/photos/16nine/22802717995 Hopefully the city will have buy-in from the residents, as this plan seems to also modify…

Why is green space also labelled as "dead space"?

I thought having trees and green space in an urban environment really lightens up the whole feel of concrete structures.

Re: Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars

#66

Post by vertex-four » Sat, Aug 06, 2016, 5:55 PM UTC

massysett wrote: post #47

"Modern cities are ruled by cars." "Some folks, however, still cling to the old idea that cities are for people," How strange. Every time I see a car, one or more people are in it. I also see other vehicles, such as trucks, that not only have a person in it, they also are carrying things (such as food or building materials) that other people need.

In reality, most people enjoy spending time outside - and outside doesn't mean in their car, it actually means outside. The more you assume people have and want to use cars all the time when developing a city, the less time people are reasonably able to spend outside. There's very few people who actually enjoy being in cars in the middle of a city.

Re: Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars

#67

Post by fineIllregister » Sat, Aug 06, 2016, 6:01 PM UTC

gkya wrote: post #45

bjelkeman-again wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or share the car with other people for a lot fewer cars overall. Imagine a town with 1/5 as many cars as today. How nice it would be.

Why not just hop on a bus then? How is it different?

Autonomous cars could be part of a service where you book a fare on an app and prices are stratified by how long you're willing to wait and how many people you're willing to split fares with. Then you have a spectrum from taxis to buses.

Re: Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars

#68

Post by throwaway287391 » Sat, Aug 06, 2016, 6:03 PM UTC

gkya wrote: post #45

bjelkeman-again wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or share the car with other people for a lot fewer cars overall. Imagine a town with 1/5 as many cars as today. How nice it would be.

Why not just hop on a bus then? How is it different?

I have to say, it kind of blows my mind that someone could not see the difference in user experience between a bus and an Uber/Lyft... Even in the absolute best case scenario for the bus, where there's a perfect bus route from where you are now to your destination and there's a bus leaving exactly when you get to the stop, Uber/Lyft is still clearly better, and that best case scenario for the bus almost never occurs.

Re: Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars

#69

Post by massysett » Sat, Aug 06, 2016, 6:05 PM UTC

goldfeld wrote: post #51

massysett wrote: post #47

"Modern cities are ruled by cars." "Some folks, however, still cling to the old idea that cities are for people," How strange. Every time I see a car, one or more people are in it. I also see other vehicles, such as trucks, that not only have a person in it, they also are carrying things (such as food or building materials) that other people need.

Everything humans do are for humans. What's your point? Transportation doesn't equal car, but more car space equals less pedestrian space.

My point is it is ridiculous to make statements like "the city is ruled by the car." The car is not a living thing. It cannot rule anything.

All the cars are there because they serve people. People find them to be useful.

What people are really saying when they claim the city is "ruled" by cars is that they believe there are too many cars--which is a rather odd statement, seeing as cars are useful and people voluntarily buy and use them.

It's odd that these people are motivated not by their love for walking, not by their love of particular kinds of spaces, and not by their desire for a certain lifestyle. Rather, they are motivated by their dislike for cars. This is an immediately off-putting argument since most people do not hate their cars. If they would focus on getting more of what they want, rather than less of what they do not want, then maybe they would be able to craft winning solutions that do not rely on taking useful things away from people.

Re: Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars

#70

Post by jsprogrammer » Sat, Aug 06, 2016, 6:13 PM UTC

throwaway287391 wrote: post #68

gkya wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not just hop on a bus then? How is it different?

I have to say, it kind of blows my mind that someone could not see the difference in user experience between a bus and an Uber/Lyft... Even in the absolute best case scenario for the bus, where there's a perfect bus route from where you are now to your destination and there's a bus leaving exactly when you get to the stop, Uber/Lyft is still clearly better, and that best case scenario for the bus almost never occurs.

I've never seen an Uber/Lyft vehicle I could stand in.