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Berlin is now in a position to usurp London as the startup capital of Europe

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Re: Berlin is now in a position to usurp London as the startup capital of Europe

#71

Post by dragandj »

p4wnc6 wrote: post #36
romanovcode wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Living is also not as pricey tho

It doesn't balance out at all. If you care about being a very successful start-up, then you are implicitly competing for international talent, whether you like it or not. The same people choosing to work in SV are the people you should be trying to convince to work in Berlin. Saying they get ~ 50k euros/year but don't worry, the cost of living is low is a universal non-starter. That's just simply not competitive. The…

You forget a very big factor: only US citizens can move to SV or NY without many hoops.

If you are from EU, you can go to Berlin with no fuss, if you can get a job. Maybe your US counterpart can go to SV, but you need a visa rain dance, which make sense only if you are a star that some company want to pay a fortune to bring there.

Maybe Google and Facebook take the 0.001 % of the top developers. But, top 1% is not bad either.

Also, there is a lot of talent in Eastern Europe. For them, there are hoops and work visas for both EU and US, but, US hoops are much more difficult to pass.

Not to mention that Berlin has a great nigthlife. SF? Only complaints about the male/female ratio and nerd-dominated culture.

So, while SV is certainly the center of the industry, 100K in Berlin can give a much better life than 200K in SV, especially for people with EU citizenship.

Re: Berlin is now in a position to usurp London as the startup capital of Europe

#72

Post by philefstat »

p4wnc6 wrote: post #35
philefstat wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wages being low is a good thing, no? CoL is significantly lower too which is great.

In what way are lower wages good for the employees you're trying to attract? While some aspects of cost of living are low, others are not low at all. I guess if you're looking for nothing more than a temporary lifestyle involving enough money to go to concerts and eat at restaurants, the wage is fine for a younger person in Berlin. But it's a fantasy to believe you can effectively grow a company that way. You really…

no one is stopping you from offering your employees higher wages

Re: Berlin is now in a position to usurp London as the startup capital of Europe

#73

Post by yardie »

p4wnc6 wrote: post #35
philefstat wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wages being low is a good thing, no? CoL is significantly lower too which is great.

In what way are lower wages good for the employees you're trying to attract? While some aspects of cost of living are low, others are not low at all. I guess if you're looking for nothing more than a temporary lifestyle involving enough money to go to concerts and eat at restaurants, the wage is fine for a younger person in Berlin. But it's a fantasy to believe you can effectively grow a company that way. You really…

I made 50k in a more expensive city, Paris. From that my partner and I were able to buy a flat, put our son into a catholic school, travel (squeezyjets €20 flights), dine out, and save a little. This would not be possible anywhere in the US including SF. Child rearing costs are punitively high in the US. Medical was less than 10% of my salary.

If my calculation is right the typical 2BR apartment in SF is $5000/month. Or $60000/year. That is almost 1/3 of $200k SF salary. Add childcare at another $12000/year. And medical.

It doesn't seem as far as lifestyle they are that far off. CoL plays a huge role. This is the typical American attitude at looking across the pond and not knowing how the other side lives but just assuming it's that bad.

You really do need to hire experienced people, often with families and expectations for a higher quality of living conditions, etc., who aren't particularly interested in the youth culture offerings of Berlin.

And yet these startups, everywhere, are able to do exactly that. They use equity as a carrot to lure experienced people from a sure thing all the time.

Re: Berlin is now in a position to usurp London as the startup capital of Europe

#74

Post by GBond »

harryf wrote: post #31
nabla9 wrote: post #19

In the meantime while Nordics are home to just 3% of Europe’s population, it has created more than 50% of Europe’s Billion Dollar exits since 2005. If there is startup capital in Europe, it's Stockholm. https://medium.com/creandum-family/the-nordics-in-context-th...

Part of that is mobile games companies like Supercell with Clash of the Clans - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercell_(video_game_company) ... Hay Day, Angry Birds and others. Basically out of the ashes of Nokia, a bunch of mobile gaming companies has sprung up and to some extent are dominating the industry - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Video_game_companies_... - more at https://techcrunch.com/2016/02/10…

Spotify

Re: Berlin is now in a position to usurp London as the startup capital of Europe

#75

Post by rbanffy »

nailer wrote: post #49
794CD01 wrote: post #42

The "startup capital of Europe"? Is that like being the soccer capital of America?

> Is that like being the soccer capital of America? Like Brazil? Yes, it is.

There are about 7 big reasons not to brag about it.

Re: Berlin is now in a position to usurp London as the startup capital of Europe

#76

Post by mhomde »

speeder wrote: post #51
harryf wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of that is mobile games companies like Supercell with Clash of the Clans - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercell_(video_game_company) ... Hay Day, Angry Birds and others. Basically out of the ashes of Nokia, a bunch of mobile gaming companies has sprung up and to some extent are dominating the industry - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Video_game_companies_... - more at https://techcrunch.com/2016/02/10…

It is not just a nokia thing. Also from Nordic countries: 1. Linux 2. Irc 3. Demoscene 4. DICE

Klarna, Minecraft, King, Soundcloud, Paradox ...

Re: Berlin is now in a position to usurp London as the startup capital of Europe

#78

Post by Xylakant »

johnomarkid wrote: post #63
TorKlingberg wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much German do you need to speak in the Berlin startup community?

I've lived in Berlin for 3 years and have never had to use German to interact with people in the startup community. Since a high number of startup founders/employees are from other european countries, it's more practical to use English as the language of business.

There's places in Berlin where you actually can only order in english.

Re: Berlin is now in a position to usurp London as the startup capital of Europe

#80

Post by clentaminator »

lgieron wrote: post #70
rwallace wrote: post #26

Shouldn't we hope that something does? By all accounts, the house price situation in London has become bad enough that it's wiping out the middle class, which is very bad news; the rise of the middle class was a key factor in enabling the transition from feudal society to modern civilization. But while I'm here, I'll throw in a shameless plug: Dublin is still in the EU, and is an English-speaking capital city with mo…

> a pleasant climate I've heard that washing your car in Ireland is a non-issue; the climate takes care of that.

Some of us actually like the rain ;)
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