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Atari co-founder: mobile games make me want to throw my phone

theguardian.com

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Re: Atari co-founder: mobile games make me want to throw my phone

#71

Post by mfoy_ »

gambiting wrote: post #29
mfoy_ wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm 99% sure most mobile games are designed to psychologically drive players to spend as much money on microtransactions as possible. That, and now they are specifically targeting whales, so there's less "a little goes a long way" on IAP and now you really have to shell out to get anywhere. I know that I've personally spent more on in-app purchases that I care to admit just to get an edge on other players in some of…

Clash of Clans had a revenue of 1 BILLION dollars in 2015 alone. That's insane. I'm sure they measure every single metric that can be measured in that game and make sure it's as engaging as possible by optimizing their interfaces and looking at the psychology of players.

Some odd non-specific trends I've noticed across various games:

* There are usually 3 currencies. Usually a "f2p" currency, a "p2p" currency and a "social" currency.

* There are at least 3 distinct ways to progress a unit, for example "level", "stars/quality", "gear/items" and each way requires a different activity or minigame to progress.

* Playing the game requires "energy" or something similar which recharges slowly over time but can be refilled by paying p2p currency

* There are "ratings" on your performance which usually are measured as 1, 2, or 3 stars.

* The number three comes up a LOT in the game design. Like 3 stages per level, 3 abilities per character, 3 milestones per achievement, etc.

* Bring the player to the store as often as possible to pick up little freebies and force them to look at the paid offerings

It's like every big mobile game studio is designing off the same playbook.

Re: Atari co-founder: mobile games make me want to throw my phone

#72

Post by mikestew »

intrasight wrote: post #57
jwcooper wrote: post #14

If you can get past maybe the top 50 or 100 grossing games there are a lot of really good games out there that aren't looking to leech money from you. I have plenty of games that have been worth every penny I spent with a lot of depth and strategy required in order to master them. Letterpress, Spelltower, Hearthstone, Tiny Wings, Ticket to Ride, Strategery, GD Swarm, Ridiculous Fishing, Monument Valley...I could go o…

>This is almost a fluff piece to promote a developer Clearly you do not know who is Nolan Bushnell https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nolan_Bushnell Nolan Kay Bushnell (born February 5, 1943) is an American engineer and entrepreneur who founded both Atari, Inc. and the Chuck E. Cheese's Pizza-Time Theaters chain. Bushnell has been inducted into the Video Game Hall of Fame and the Consumer Electronics Association Hall of F…

Clearly you do not know who is Nolan Bushnell

I would argue that he knows who Bushnell is better than you do. What you posted in no way invalidates what you quoted from the parent post. Yes, Bushnell started Atari. Since he sold, he's done...golly, I'd have to go look it up because all I remember is a string of forgettable (duh) games that he put his name on because "founder of Atari".

Re: Atari co-founder: mobile games make me want to throw my phone

#73

Post by hayao »

porsupah wrote: post #60
roymurdock wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you discover quality games? I've found the ability to discover apps outside the top 100 to be virtually non-existent with the current app store configuration.

THere's not going to be an exhaustive source, of course, but I've found TouchArcade's reviews to be of some value, as well as their forum. Their weekly roundup of new releases, including trailers for each, is another avenue for being able to quickly peek through what's out there - any that pique my interest, I'll open in a new tab, and see what further screenshots or user sentiments are to be found. http://toucharcad…

That website only covers videogames for iOS, do you have any other suggestion?

Re: Atari co-founder: mobile games make me want to throw my phone

#74

Post by swah »

Goronmon wrote: post #19

Honestly, the lack of dedicated controls will never allow for mobile gaming to be anything more than a time diversion for most people. A touchscreen just isn't something that's comfortable to use for extended lengths of time, in my opinion at least.

I also feel like that, but the game download numbers tell otherwise :(

(My favorite kind of mobile games are the ones where the game stops until you complete your input: Stickman Golf, Score Hero)

Re: Atari co-founder: mobile games make me want to throw my phone

#75

Post by Shivetya »

badloginagain wrote: post #66
blue_dinner wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"These games were all priced probably too low for what they offered in time played." The marketplace has pushed prices down so low (sub $5), in-game purchases or advertisements are the only way they can make a living. If Google/Apple cared about their developers, they would force a minimum price. This way, it wasn't a race to the bottom. The end result is either large companies using the games as a loss leader, hobby…

The race bottomed out before Google/Apple were even in the game. Zynga's burn n' churn strategy set precedents for both the gaming audience and game developers alike- pull users into turbo-charged Skinner boxes. Now these platforms monetize from selling users to developers. Acquisition rates are as shady as they are exacting- you compete for the same users as the top 10 games, who have advertising budgets the size of…

Well the ease of entry and the fact developers from areas of the world with much lower costs of living is going to drop the price of any similar market. Similar being wholly digital which eliminates the majority of costs with regards to distribution.

I would not mind seeing a common micro transaction model that all such games could subscribe to so as to remove touch points to a persons credit but also give some assurance of trust and security.

Re: Atari co-founder: mobile games make me want to throw my phone

#76

Post by djsumdog »

jwcooper wrote: post #14

If you can get past maybe the top 50 or 100 grossing games there are a lot of really good games out there that aren't looking to leech money from you. I have plenty of games that have been worth every penny I spent with a lot of depth and strategy required in order to master them. Letterpress, Spelltower, Hearthstone, Tiny Wings, Ticket to Ride, Strategery, GD Swarm, Ridiculous Fishing, Monument Valley...I could go o…

I really like Ridiculous Fishing.

The guy who made Braid has similar talks, comparing mobile games, arcade games and 90s syndicated sitcoms. They only keep you entertained long enough to insert another coin or make it through a commercial break.

The good mobile games, like you've mentioned, focus on creating a good engaging game without micro-transactions. They earn less. Games with micro-transactions have like a 70% ~ 80% drop rate when you get to the point where you need to pay to make the progress non-painful. That remaining little group is their revenue. Occasionally you get a "whale" that will drop $500 ~ $1000 or more on a game!

I knew game developers who talked about this. It kinda makes me feel sick. Either they have a lot of money, or they're just compulsive. In the later, you're taking advantage of people in the same way casinos take advantage of gamblers. "Whale" is a term used by both industries.

Fuck in-game purchases.

Re: Atari co-founder: mobile games make me want to throw my phone

#77

Post by saturdaysaint »

stegosaurus wrote: post #3
askyourmother wrote: post #2

If they can get games to be fun again, where you want to play, rather than just kill time, that would be awesome. I still play games on the old 8 and 16 bit consoles, where gameplay always shone. No matter how many times you complete R-Type, you still come back for more.

>> rather than just kill time Yeah, that's something I find really odd about most mobile games. They seem designed as a way to basically put the brain into a low energy state or something, rather than actually being interesting. My personal experience of games like Candy Crush is that people play them on the subway or whatever when there's nothing else to do. If they had a book with them they'd read that, if someone…

I probably have a similar sensibility in regard to games, but Candy Crush is quite the opposite of "watching paint dry" in a lot of respects. It's full of novel/weird animations, cute characters, satisfying sound effects. I compare it to a casino slot machine room - a lot of people just like to be mesmerized by pretty sights/sounds without that much of a challenge. I don't exactly respect it as a gamer, but it speaks to a weird/interesting human need.

Re: Atari co-founder: mobile games make me want to throw my phone

#78

Post by drzaiusapelord »

pavel_lishin wrote: post #61
drzaiusapelord wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>How do you discover quality games? You can't because the discoverability is terrible and the various app stores just care about raw sales, not quality. So that means that devs who want to make quality games never get noticed and that's a major disincentive to produce such games. Mobile gaming doesn't have the tech press, steam-like reviews, etc other gaming has. Its a lot of impulsive buyers feeding a market that de…

> You can't jwcooper did > Mobile gaming doesn't have the tech press, steam-like reviews, etc other gaming has. I was going to say [citation needed], but then I just literally googled "mobile game reviews" and hit two matches at the very top: http://www.polygon.com/games/mobile/reviewed and http://toucharcade.com/ > This is like asking where the chess table at a casino is. Ballrooms A through C: http://www.vegaschess…

Exceptions don't disprove the general trend. Its pretty disingenious to find small exceptions and pretend they're the standard.

The reality is that app store discoverability is terrible and p2w and other freemium games dominate sales. These types of sales demotivate devs and publishers from treating the mobile world like consoles or PC, where very good games exist and are easily found. This is a solved problem almost everywhere else? Why is it such a massive problem on mobile? When HN-level people are asking "Geez where are the good games," then you have a problem. If they're struggling then Joe User absolutely is.

Re: Atari co-founder: mobile games make me want to throw my phone

#79

Post by ketralnis »

jwcooper wrote: post #14

If you can get past maybe the top 50 or 100 grossing games there are a lot of really good games out there that aren't looking to leech money from you. I have plenty of games that have been worth every penny I spent with a lot of depth and strategy required in order to master them. Letterpress, Spelltower, Hearthstone, Tiny Wings, Ticket to Ride, Strategery, GD Swarm, Ridiculous Fishing, Monument Valley...I could go o…

> I could go on and on

Please do!

The problem I've had with mobile games has been discoverability. The app store's recommendations have been useless and the featured/top grossing/most popular games are just the ones that make the most money via in app purchases.

And for some crazy reason, fewer and fewer games have actual screenshots in the screenshot section of their store page. Instead they opt to use that space for simple adverts ("best game ever!", "build 30 kinds of city!") and pictures of cartoon scantily clad women in armour. I'm sure there are many great games that I've just refused to play because of that crap

The frustrating thing is that I'm more than willing to pay $30+ for a game (up front, not in IAP to keep playing), but games that are worth that are rare and other players willing to pay it are rarer.

Some great games I've found (I mostly like RTS): Auralux, Mechcom, God of Light, Castle Raid, Anthill (so good!), Galcon, Plants vs Zombies (1, not 2), Swords and Soldiers, geoDefense.

Re: Atari co-founder: mobile games make me want to throw my phone

#80

Post by echeese »

djsumdog wrote: post #76
jwcooper wrote: post #14

If you can get past maybe the top 50 or 100 grossing games there are a lot of really good games out there that aren't looking to leech money from you. I have plenty of games that have been worth every penny I spent with a lot of depth and strategy required in order to master them. Letterpress, Spelltower, Hearthstone, Tiny Wings, Ticket to Ride, Strategery, GD Swarm, Ridiculous Fishing, Monument Valley...I could go o…

I really like Ridiculous Fishing. The guy who made Braid has similar talks, comparing mobile games, arcade games and 90s syndicated sitcoms. They only keep you entertained long enough to insert another coin or make it through a commercial break. The good mobile games, like you've mentioned, focus on creating a good engaging game without micro-transactions. They earn less. Games with micro-transactions have like a 70%…

At that point, you don't have fans, you've got addicts.
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