The Al-Qaeda Leader Who Wasn’t: The Shameful Ordeal of Abu Zubaydah

Post by zyxley » Tue, Apr 26, 2016, 3:11 PM UTC

ikeboy wrote: post #62

spangry wrote: post #47

Interesting implication from the title of the article: that it would be 'right' to waterboard some other men. Who are they, and what justifies their torture? And before someone says it, I don't think "gathering intelligence" is a sufficiently moral or practical justification. People being tortured don't tell you valuable information; they tell you whatever they think will make the torture stop. The CIA is a sickening…

>Who are they, and what justifies their torture? >People being tortured don't tell you valuable information; they tell you whatever they think will make the torture stop. You're already asserting your position, and disguising it as a question. Virtually everyone seriously condoning torture believe it is effective. If they were to believe it wasn't effective, they wouldn't order it to be done. You may think it's not e…

Post by Cthulhu_ » Tue, Apr 26, 2016, 3:15 PM UTC

hartpuff wrote: post #66

spangry wrote: post #47

Interesting implication from the title of the article: that it would be 'right' to waterboard some other men. Who are they, and what justifies their torture? And before someone says it, I don't think "gathering intelligence" is a sufficiently moral or practical justification. People being tortured don't tell you valuable information; they tell you whatever they think will make the torture stop. The CIA is a sickening…

> The CIA is a sickening and surprisingly amateurish organisation. Their actions over the past decades have ruined the United States' international moral authority. I'm not even sure that's true. I think the perception of the CIA (perhaps due to generally positive portrayals of it on TV and in movies) is completely different to, say, the perception people have of the Stasi or KGB. And yet did those organizations, whi…

Post by Cthulhu_ » Tue, Apr 26, 2016, 3:20 PM UTC

pigpaws wrote: post #30

booleandilemma wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah I see how this site works

yeah, isn't democracy grand? Its' a microcosm of the MSM.... and you thought this was a republic? Outrage-on-demand. EVERY opinion is protected, unless it doesn't agree with the "masses"...

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Apr 26, 2016, 3:21 PM UTC

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #73

hartpuff wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The CIA is a sickening and surprisingly amateurish organisation. Their actions over the past decades have ruined the United States' international moral authority. I'm not even sure that's true. I think the perception of the CIA (perhaps due to generally positive portrayals of it on TV and in movies) is completely different to, say, the perception people have of the Stasi or KGB. And yet did those organizations, whi…

Behold, the effects of propaganda. I'd really like to see some solid research in how much the CIA or US government funds TV shows and movies to portray those organizations as the good guys, or whether it's more due to patriotism or whatever it is that makes a movie-maker portray organizations like that as good or bad.

Post by pessimizer » Tue, Apr 26, 2016, 3:23 PM UTC

krapp wrote: post #57

pessimizer wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We can see physical or psychological torture used effectively in many TV series. Almost exclusively by the heroes, and it always works almost instantly. It says something about the people writing them. I can't wait for the episode of Daredevil where he spends a month and a half torturing someone for information. Remember all of those scenes in movies from the 70s and earlier when halfway through the rape, the woman…

>Remember all of those scenes in movies from the 70s and earlier when halfway through the rape, the woman starts to get into it, and when we cut to the morning after and she's like "never leave me," and now the viewer is expected to sympathise with the rapist and his victim against the world? Actually, no. I've seen plenty of old movies, but I don't recall many rape scenes, much less such rape scenes where the rapist…