You can train your body into thinking it’s had medicine • Hacker News Board

Re: You can train your body into thinking it’s had medicine

#71

Post by madaxe_again » Thu, Feb 11, 2016, 10:13 AM UTC

blurbleblurble wrote: post #50

madaxe_again wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup - which may have been where my problems started, as I inadvertently radically modified my intestinal flora with a brutal and strict diet - for a long time put it down to having fundamentally screwed up my digestion, but towards the point when I decided to think of it differently, I had been wondering if I'd screwed up neurotransmitter levels via microbiota genocide, and was trapped in a vicious cycle - hence the…

Something similar happened to me when I was fighting some (likely chronic) yeast and staph infections last year. I got pretty strict with my diet and was underweight by about 10 pounds. Even though I was eating very healthy, I wasn't letting myself eat stuff I was hungry for. Eventually I decided I couldn't restrict myself anymore, and started eating regular again. I bounced back pretty well after that. Sounds like y…

I do similar with pain - break it into its component parts, and you can experience it as a warm tickling, or pressure, if you've really managed to do a number - although some things one can't map, like having finger nails torn off - although maybe that's because it's an uncommon pain one doesn't usually get a chance to examine.

Re: You can train your body into thinking it’s had medicine

#72

Post by _bdog » Thu, Feb 11, 2016, 10:13 AM UTC

I was very sick as a child: I had neurodermitis (Lichen simplex chronicus) so I was constantly scratched bloody. I also had asthma and countless plant, animal and food-allergies, so I couldn't eat most things (dairy-products, sugar in every form except honey, salt, chocolate, white flour, eggs, nuts, citrus-fruits, the list goes on and on). Spent a lot of time in hospital.

When I was about 9 or 10 years old I got to a point where I was completely fed-up by all the rules I had to follow: Eat this. Don't eat this. Be careful during sports because of your asthma. There's ozone in the forest.

So I decided to ignore every single symptom until it got so strong that I'd have to go to hospital again. I also started showering cold every day and trained myself to sleep without a blanket, so I wouldn't sweat, which would irritate my skin.

I don't know when it happened, but all my problems completely disappeared over time. I'm 30 now, tests I do now and then, say my allergies and asthma are still there, but i'm more or less symptom-free.

Whenever I feel bad I consciously use the placebo-effect, for example by drinking a large glass of water and telling myself that THIS glass of water is EXACTLY what my body needed right now and will make everything better.

Note that I'm not advocating to reduce medicine: When I have a headache, I'm the first to take an aspirin. All I'm saying is that there's definitely a large cognitive component in health and feeling well, which can be trained.

Re: You can train your body into thinking it’s had medicine

#73

Post by sandworm101 » Thu, Feb 11, 2016, 3:31 PM UTC

salgernon wrote: post #66

sandworm101 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reminds me of the story of the Vatican official sent to judge the miraculous healing properties of a shrine. He looked at the pile of crutches, canes and wheelchairs left by "cured" people. "What? No wooden legs?" Placebos can work in some narrow circumstances, but they cannot fix some basic problems. Pain relief? sure. But in place of an antibiotic? Expect a lawsuit.

I hadn't heard of the Vatican official story, but certainly many religiously minded people will use prayer as a self-regulated placebo. http://whywontgodhealamputees.com Which makes me wonder if some of the more faith healing type of religions end up being sued when the prayer doesn't actually produce results.

The story is meant to have come from Lourdes, which I believe the Vatican has failed to recognize as a legit miracle despite the location being a pilgrimage for many Catholics.

Re: You can train your body into thinking it’s had medicine

#74

Post by nickpsecurity » Thu, Feb 11, 2016, 5:45 PM UTC

reitanqild wrote: post #35

nickpsecurity wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meditation is vague word. There's guides for how to do this online and in books. I tried a bunch until some worked. Basic thing was just letting go of most thoughts, focusing on one thing, intending it to happen, and letting it happen without forcing it. You need feedback like a monitor showing you numbers and paying attention to feel of your own body. Eventually, some part of brain delivers. It delivers better over…

Any specific techniques/pointers for pumping up? It seemed to me meditation was all about relaxation, and my problem is it seems I can easily calm down but anything that would increase alertness without needing chemistry, that would be much appreciated.

Lost most memory to a brain injury in an accident. I'm coming up blank on this one unfortunately. The thing I remember was that it was about association. You associate certain songs, words, thoughts, actions, etc with emotional states. So, just as you can calm down to some, you can pump up to some faster.

Little things like walking around or even a proper warm up can help. I do remember repeating the same songs during key phases of a workout. I still have to avoid listening to those songs as I go to sleep at night as my brain gets wide awake.

Re: You can train your body into thinking it’s had medicine

#75

Post by iamcurious » Thu, Feb 11, 2016, 6:34 PM UTC

mettamage wrote: post #55

lukev wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I read the methods correctly, then how does this fall into the category of "learned behavior"? Exposing the body to these temperature extremes, which are far outside the norms most of us experience and which must induce borderline hypothermia, surely has its own physiological effect. I don't doubt the effect can be beneficial, but that seems squarely in the camp of physical treatment as opposed to "thinking" yours…

To avoid confusion read my answer on cognitive science stack exchange. While it is just an opinion, it is quite an informed one. I participated in the study above. Our final challenge was walking on a ski mountain for 2.5 hours -7 degrees celsius with shorts and shoes. You could bring a hat for style points (I did :) ) but no shirt. Once in a lifetime experience: hugging people in ski-suits who were on vacation while…

Impressive. Can you point to some references regarding the breathing technique?

Re: You can train your body into thinking it’s had medicine

#76

Post by kdamken » Thu, Feb 11, 2016, 6:37 PM UTC

fucsia wrote: post #12

kdamken wrote: post #8

Anyone who is interested in mind over matter should check out Dr. Sarno's work - http://www.amazon.com/The-Mindbody-Prescription-Healing-Body... Similar to the vomiting poster, I had/have a longtime chronic nerve pain issue in my arms and legs that this book was tremendously helpful in managing. While fixing bad posture and a variety of other things helped, this book helped me get to the point where most days I'm in…

Did you read any of Dr. Sarno's other two books? I'm wondering how they compare. http://www.amazon.com/Healing-Back-Pain-Mind-Body-Connection... http://www.amazon.com/The-Divided-Mind-Epidemic-Disorders/dp... Besides challenging the mind over matter, this work also challenges the idea of what to believe and pursue when scientific evidence is relatively lacking.

I have not - once the pain subsided I decided to take a break from all the medical reading and research for a while. Still, I'd definitely be interested in checking those out when I have a bit more free time.

Re: You can train your body into thinking it’s had medicine

#77

Post by fractallyte » Thu, Feb 11, 2016, 7:23 PM UTC

salgernon wrote: post #66

sandworm101 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reminds me of the story of the Vatican official sent to judge the miraculous healing properties of a shrine. He looked at the pile of crutches, canes and wheelchairs left by "cured" people. "What? No wooden legs?" Placebos can work in some narrow circumstances, but they cannot fix some basic problems. Pain relief? sure. But in place of an antibiotic? Expect a lawsuit.

I hadn't heard of the Vatican official story, but certainly many religiously minded people will use prayer as a self-regulated placebo. http://whywontgodhealamputees.com Which makes me wonder if some of the more faith healing type of religions end up being sued when the prayer doesn't actually produce results.

Thank you for that link - a relentless, yet sensitive, dissection of religion and Christianity.

I have some creationist acquaintances who need to read this!

Re: You can train your body into thinking it’s had medicine

#78

Post by fractallyte » Thu, Feb 11, 2016, 7:28 PM UTC

narrator wrote: post #2

Wim Hoff [1] is a great example of someone who can turn a lot of the knobs on his metabolism that aren't available to most of us. Apparently, he says it's something you can learn to do. If these researchers got more concrete about how patients can learn to do this and to get physiologically measurable effects, it would actually certainly lower health care costs. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wim_Hof

I watched a video of this guy wowing some 'scientists', and was not impressed.

His arms were folded in front, close to his chest. That helped tremendously to maintain core temperature, even with ice surrounding the rest of his body. In a way, it was cheating; but no one had the temerity to point that out...

Re: You can train your body into thinking it’s had medicine

#79

Post by Swizec » Thu, Feb 11, 2016, 10:25 PM UTC

zachkatz wrote: post #67

Swizec wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who used to be able to do things like that: meditation. Tricking your sense of body position is the most fun and weird thing you can do.

What do you mean by "sense of body position?" Sounds really cool.

The kinesthetic sense is one of your internal senses. It tells you the position of your body. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proprioception

With intense focus you can trick it so it feels like your body is in a different position than it is. But you usually still know your body's true position from other senses so it ends up feeling like you're in two positions at the same time.

It's quite trippy.

Re: You can train your body into thinking it’s had medicine

#80

Post by nickpsecurity » Fri, Feb 12, 2016, 9:34 PM UTC

Swizec wrote: post #79

zachkatz wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean by "sense of body position?" Sounds really cool.

The kinesthetic sense is one of your internal senses. It tells you the position of your body. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proprioception With intense focus you can trick it so it feels like your body is in a different position than it is. But you usually still know your body's true position from other senses so it ends up feeling like you're in two positions at the same time. It's quite trippy.

Never heard of that. Trippy. I always wanted to try the Crane and Piantanida experiment to see what those colors looked like. Was afraid it would screw up my brain haha.