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The Fats You Don’t Need to Fear, and the Carbs That You Do

well.blogs.nytimes.com

71–80 of 112 posts

Re: The Fats You Don’t Need to Fear, and the Carbs That You Do

#71
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The twinkie diet guy was funded by coca cola http://observer.com/2015/10/here-are-the-people-coca-cola-ha...

This sounds like just trying to smear the guy by association, but try to contradict the actually findings of this experiment.

Even if I didn't know about the Coke association, the problem I would have with a 10 week study is that it's a 10 week study. It's not evidence of sustainability.

10 weeks of changing your diet in general will probably lead to weight loss as long as you're not increasing your total calories, but that doesn't mean that the diet is sustainable long-term. If you live on say, a few donuts a day, you'll lose weight, but it'll also give you terrible sugar crashes and you won't be able to focus. You'll be irritable. It will really suck, and you'll either end up eating more or seeing your quality of life suffer.

Re: The Fats You Don’t Need to Fear, and the Carbs That You Do

#72
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about eating a diet where you don't have to count calories to get to or maintain a healthy weight? Fat is very satiating.

Maybe for you. I could easily put down 6000 calories worth of peanut butter in one shot, but if I tried that with pasta I probably wouldn't break 4000, and with veggies I probably wouldn't break 1500.

> 6000 calories worth of peanut butter in one shot

WHAT?! Please make a YouTube video. I will show all my friends and family. The amazing Peanut Butter Eating Hero.

Re: The Fats You Don’t Need to Fear, and the Carbs That You Do

#73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The American overweight problem is cultural and not an issue with eating high or low glycemic foods like the article states. If losing weight is an issue for someone. They are better off having a larger second meal and a smaller third meal even if that third meal is at 9 or 10pm so they can enjoy it with family or after work. The idea is not to have more blood sugar than then the liver can store as glycogen at bed ti…

> The American overweight problem is cultural and not an issue with eating high or low glycemic foods like the article states. Why not both?

You are correct. Normal people should eat low glycemic foods also, true. But, not for the same reason that diabetic people have to. A diabetic person can't handle spikes in blood sugar, while a normal person can without consequence.

What is interesting is the mechanism that causes low glycemic food to digest slower. It's the fiber! Processed Uncle Ben's has .6 grams of dietary fiber per serving while brown rice has 3.5 grams per serving. For the same reason brown rice takes much, much longer to cook breaking down the cellulose to make it palatable, brown rice takes much, much longer to have it's energy absorbed into the blood stream, the fiber.

When a person eats low glycemic therefore high fiber foods, they are getting the same amount of satiation per same quantity of food, but that fiber is passing through without being absorbed. So, people eating low glycemic foods are consuming less calories for the same level of satiation. That is the 10,000 ft view but it more complicated than that because different foods have different levels of satiation based on many things that are more than just physiological but also psychological.

The article says that high blood sugar levels lead to weight gain which isn't entirely true in most people. High blood sugar levels while the liver has stored as much energy as it can in the sugar analogue glycogen leads weight gain and eating low or high glycemic foods doesn't matter.

Re: The Fats You Don’t Need to Fear, and the Carbs That You Do

#74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're interested, the book Big Fat Surprise talks a great deal about how fat (other than trans fat) isn't bad for you. http://www.amazon.com/The-Big-Fat-Surprise-Healthy/dp/145162...

I also recommend reading Gary Taubes' Why We Get Fat: http://www.amazon.com/Why-We-Get-Fat-About/dp/0307474259

This book is kind of a joke among people who are seriously interested in nutrition. There is some decent information in there, and the research Taubes is doing now actually seems like it might be pretty good, but the book has some really bad conclusions that are not supported by science. It's a good intro book, but take it with a big grain of salt.

Re: The Fats You Don’t Need to Fear, and the Carbs That You Do

#75

The role of liver function and glycogen should be included in this conversation.[1] There might be a lot more at work than just elevated blood sugar levels. In most normal people, meaning without diabetes and other metabolism problems, the liver doesn't immediately convert sugar to fat. Rather extra sugar is converted to glycogen which can be easily accessed for energy. What happens when a runner carbo loads the nigh…

> For a person who wakes up around 7am the fast should begin around 5pm in order to let the sugars deplete around bed time. There is no reason to have readily available sugars while sleeping. And then in the morning break the fast.

I can only speak from my own experience– but I'm a tall, skinny guy and if I don't eat for longer than a couple of hours, I start getting low blood sugar symptoms. My heart starts racing and I have trouble focusing or sleeping.

I did some reading about it, and I can't remember the exact science, but I think I read that if your blood sugar levels are too low, your brain worries that you'll go into a coma and it'll try to keep you awake.

Now that I wrote that down, it sounds a little pseudosciency, but that's consistent with my experience. Would love to hear from anybody who has a better understanding.

Re: The Fats You Don’t Need to Fear, and the Carbs That You Do

#76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The American overweight problem is cultural and not an issue with eating high or low glycemic foods like the article states. Why not both?

You are correct. Normal people should eat low glycemic foods also, true. But, not for the same reason that diabetic people have to. A diabetic person can't handle spikes in blood sugar, while a normal person can without consequence. What is interesting is the mechanism that causes low glycemic food to digest slower. It's the fiber! Processed Uncle Ben's has .6 grams of dietary fiber per serving while brown rice has 3…

I understand that 'satiation' is related to blood sugar rising. In my experience those healthy foods absolutely do not promote satiation.

Re: The Fats You Don’t Need to Fear, and the Carbs That You Do

#77
post #2

How about we stop "fearing" certain foods and just eat a reasonably varied diet that is calorie restricted? Or if you want to simply lose weight, just calorie restricted. Or do I have to bring up the people who have lived on nothing but twinkies or McD for a month and stil lost weight?

The thermodynamic hypothesis is correct to the extent that the change in chemical energy potential retained in the body will be equal to energy absorbed from food minus energy expended by metabolism.

It tends to ignore the fact that energy expended by metabolism is a black-box function that takes energy absorbed from food as just one of its input parameters.

If you restrict calories below a threshold (that varies by individual), the body will flip genetic switches to enter famine survival mode. It will adjust metabolic functions to slow down weight loss by any means possible. When the restriction ends, some of those switches do not get toggled back to their previous state. So if you have ever tried a diet that included severe calorie restrictions or extended fasting, you may forevermore find it much easier to gain weight than lose it.

So if you want to go by the thermodynamic hypothesis, it is far safer for you in the long run to hold your diet constant and either increase exercise or thermogenesis (i.e. live through a winter at one of the poles).

Channel swimmers burn about 40 Mcal of energy. Marathon runners burn about 3 Mcal. But their bodies will prefer to use up all glycogen stores before digging in to body fat, and now some will eat glycogen gel during the event to avoid "hitting the wall" entirely. Fat-burning is maximized only after depleting glycogen, or when exercising below the aerobic threshold (and possibly also below the lactate threshold), between 60% and 70% of your maximum heart rate. Obviously, this would ordinarily set a hard limit on the number of kcal you can reasonably expend via exercise to lose body fat.

Thus, the uncanny effectiveness of ketogenic diets and "bonk training". Those practices intentionally deplete glycogen stores beforehand, so any exercise done in that state burns more body fat, regardless of your exercise intensity. Ordinarily, you could have 1500 kcal or more of glycogen stores. That's enough for 15 miles of running, or 2 hours of cycling. And that's a lot of exercise to do before you start to get more permanent fat-loss results.

It is much easier to eat just enough protein to serve the short-term needs of your body, eat the remaining caloric requirement to avoid switching to starvation mode as fat, and avoid all carbohydrates like the plague. Your body converts only as much protein as it needs into sugars, but not enough to replenish its glycogen, and switches to using fat as its primary energy supply, so any additional kcal you expend are coming directly from adipose reserves. (This sort of lifestyle may have unintended side effects.)

People don't want to just "lose weight". When they say that, they usually mean "lose fat". And that goal is a lot more complex than just kcal in minus kcal out.

We still don't fully understand how diet, exercise, metabolism, and appetite work together to produce visible effects on the body. But we do know that a single dietary strategy will not work for everybody, particularly the "just reduce calorie count" strategy.

Re: The Fats You Don’t Need to Fear, and the Carbs That You Do

#78

The role of liver function and glycogen should be included in this conversation.[1] There might be a lot more at work than just elevated blood sugar levels. In most normal people, meaning without diabetes and other metabolism problems, the liver doesn't immediately convert sugar to fat. Rather extra sugar is converted to glycogen which can be easily accessed for energy. What happens when a runner carbo loads the nigh…

> leaving excess sugar that will be converted into fat De-novo lipogenisis from sugar in practice does not happen humans. If you do something goofy like keep dietary fat under 5 grams and eat hundreds of grams of carbohydrate some monounsaturated fats can be synthesized, but it's fair to say that it basically doesn't happen. Any fat on your body came directly from fats you ate. Sugar and carbohydrate only matter with…

And even if it did, it's good to keep in mind all the energy that is lost converting sugars into fat during DNL, which isn't exactly the most efficient process.

In terms of fattening macro-nutrients, the rank would be fat > sugars > protein.

People keep ignoring this simple fact (that fat is already fat after all), yet argue endlessly about physiological stuff and ancestor mumbo jumbo.

Re: The Fats You Don’t Need to Fear, and the Carbs That You Do

#79

> It’s really important to distinguish between healthy fats and bad fats, healthy carbs and bad carbs What a bunch of crap. They said the same thing about cholesterol after fucking up monumentally and the history repeats itself over and over again. Just man up, recognize how incompetent you are, how your non-scientific advice has been hurting people over the past 50 years and switch jobs because the science you're pr…

> What actually changed is making food an industrial process whose output is processed/synthetic food I wanted to include another note about the glycemic index. Processed white rice has .6 grams of dietary fiber while unprocessed brown rice has 3.5 grams of dietary fiber per serving. Often the glycemic index is a function of fiber because the fiber slows down absorption of sugar so it happens slower over a longer per…

Your comment prompted me to look up the GIs for brown and white rice. I checked several sources. Unfortunately GI numbers vary significantly depending on brand and preparation (and perhaps source).

Here are some GI values for rice from the Mendosa GI list... http://www.mendosa.com/gilists.htm

The nominal GI of white rice is 73. But various brands and preparations can cause the GI of NS white rice to vary from 43 to 90. Long grain varies from 50 to 76. Uncle Ben's in a pouch runs around 48.

The nominal GI of brown rice is 68. But again, brand and preparation introcuces much variance, from 50 to 87.

The nominal GI of converted boiled white rice trends lower at 38 (Uncle Ben's) but can run as high as 87.

However from an authoritative article of 1000 foods in Diabetes Care from 2008, the GI of white rice is 89 and brown 50. http://www.health.harvard.edu/healthy-eating/glycemic_index_...

In the end, it seems you have to be very careful about exactly which products and preparations you're comparing.

Re: The Fats You Don’t Need to Fear, and the Carbs That You Do

#80
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really really doesn't matter how you time your calories.

Please elaborate further. Sources et al.

Do you have any specific questions? I don't feel like a source is necessary here because this is generally accepted as fact and has been reproduced countless times. There is no science showing caloric timing being significant (physically) in terms of weight management. Mentally (as your sibling comment points out) sure, but physically absolutely not. You don't get fat from eating late, you get fat from eating an extra meal late.
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