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Graffiti on ‘Homeland,’ Unnoticed by Producers, Calls Show Racist

nytimes.com

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Re: Graffiti on ‘Homeland,’ Unnoticed by Producers, Calls Show Racist

#71

Post by _ak »

vezzy-fnord wrote: post #15
meatysnapper wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if the race is synonymous with a religion- Judaism and Jews being the obvious example?

Except it isn't. There's a clear distinction between Jews as an ethnic group and Judaism the religion. Hence frequent criticism of and among various Jewish movements without it being anti-Semitic.

Not really. You're considered a Jew by other Jews if at least one of your parents is Jewish (your mother in most sects, your father in a few other sects). That's very tribalistic. So, what's the common communal identifier of Jews? Jewish culture, and interwoven with that, Judaism. You can't separate the religious from the cultural component of that communal identity, and you can't separate Jewish culture from Jewish people.

This also shows in how Israel regulates its immigration: both people with ethnically Jewish roots (at least one of your grandparents) and people of Jewish belief where ethnic roots hadn't been established at that time (biggest example: Ethiopian Jews) are accepted and granted citizenship.

Conversion of people to Judaism are relatively rare, and are really a more recent phenomenon. Jews don't proselytize and often discourage conversion. Samaritans, the "sister" religion of Judaism (both derive from the Israelites from before the destruction of the first temple), are similar but even more extreme in that. How more tribalistic than that can you get?

Re: Graffiti on ‘Homeland,’ Unnoticed by Producers, Calls Show Racist

#72

Post by floatboth »

oldmanjay wrote: post #12
ingsoc79 wrote: post #4

Never knew you could be "racist" against a religion. I get it though, take a powerful word with negative connotations and use it to put your target on the defensive, no matter how tangential the connection. Kind of like being called a "commie" in the 20th century.

I've come through the other side on this topic. When someone levels an "ism" charge, I assume the accuser has an agenda and become suspicious.

"Has an agenda" is a completely, utterly meaningless phrase. Literally everyone has an agenda. It's okay. You have an agenda too. You just convinced yourself you don't.

Re: Graffiti on ‘Homeland,’ Unnoticed by Producers, Calls Show Racist

#73

Post by justizin »

[deleted] wrote: post #45
dalke wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For an example of how the fake TV world can be used to justify real world beliefs: http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2007/06/20/justice-scalia-hearts-ja... > The Globe and Mail reported that Scalia came to the defense of Jack Bauer and his torture tactics during an Ottawa conference of international jurists and national security officials last week. During a panel discussion about terrorism, torture and the law, a Canadian ju…

[deleted]

You do know that the CFAA was authored in response to the fictional threats depicted in, "War Games", right?

Re: Graffiti on ‘Homeland,’ Unnoticed by Producers, Calls Show Racist

#74

Post by [deleted] »

vijayr wrote: post #61
unknownzero wrote: post #21

This is the best hack I've seen on Hacker News in months and it doesn't even involve a computer. Great job to everyone involved in pulling it off, even if the casual viewers didn't notice.

I am conflicted - on one hand it is a great hack, no doubt. But they also screwed over the producers, who trusted them and paid them for their work.

[deleted]

Re: Graffiti on ‘Homeland,’ Unnoticed by Producers, Calls Show Racist

#75

Post by frenchman_in_ny »

vijayr wrote: post #61
unknownzero wrote: post #21

This is the best hack I've seen on Hacker News in months and it doesn't even involve a computer. Great job to everyone involved in pulling it off, even if the casual viewers didn't notice.

I am conflicted - on one hand it is a great hack, no doubt. But they also screwed over the producers, who trusted them and paid them for their work.

The producers also admire the hack.

From the show's creator & executive producer: "We wish we’d caught these images before they made it to air. However, as Homeland always strives to be subversive in its own right and a stimulus for conversation, we can’t help but admire this act of artistic sabotage.” [0]

[0] http://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2015/oct/15/homeland...

(edited for clarity)

Re: Graffiti on ‘Homeland,’ Unnoticed by Producers, Calls Show Racist

#76

Post by smt88 »

briandear wrote: post #50
smt88 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think "nuanced" is the key there. Also, when you're portraying a minority, the effect of your work will be different. If you live in the US, chances are excellent that you know a variety of white people well. Some are good, some are bad. Chances are much worse that you know Muslims or Middle Eastern immigrants well. Muslims are one of the most discriminated against minorities in the US, and there's some shocking wi…

Interesting because Christians are among the most discriminated against groups in the Middle East. Pot, meet kettle.

1) That was completely non-sequitur. I didn't say Christians are primarily responsible for discriminating against Muslims.

2) The people persecuting Christians in (some of) the Middle East aren't the same people facing persecution here. It's unfair to assume they're guilty of bigotry just because someone else who shares their religion is. Should we assume all Catholics molest children because some do? Are all Protestants members of the Klan?

3) I'm from the US, and I'm not bigoted toward Muslims or Christians (nor do I belong to either group). I'm neither pot nor kettle, so your nonsensical comment means even less to me.

Re: Graffiti on ‘Homeland,’ Unnoticed by Producers, Calls Show Racist

#77

Post by vezzy-fnord »

_ak wrote: post #71
vezzy-fnord wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except it isn't. There's a clear distinction between Jews as an ethnic group and Judaism the religion. Hence frequent criticism of and among various Jewish movements without it being anti-Semitic.

Not really. You're considered a Jew by other Jews if at least one of your parents is Jewish (your mother in most sects, your father in a few other sects). That's very tribalistic. So, what's the common communal identifier of Jews? Jewish culture, and interwoven with that, Judaism. You can't separate the religious from the cultural component of that communal identity, and you can't separate Jewish culture from Jewish…

However, Jews also have disproportionately high levels of atheism, secularism and other forms of irreligion, which means much of the Jewish culture (Judaism) is relegated to irrelevance, but the ethnic identification nonetheless remains.

Jewish culture as such is certainly interwoven with Judaism, but becoming increasingly syncretic. Look at the large number of hilonim in Israel.

Re: Graffiti on ‘Homeland,’ Unnoticed by Producers, Calls Show Racist

#78

Post by patcon »

Archio wrote: post #65
nahiluhmot wrote: post #43

Pretty telling that nobody on the set can read Arabic.

Pretty telling that what? The show is racist? I think there might be more nuance involved.

I think (s)he was implying not that they're racist, but that they are ignorant of the cultures they are trusted to portray

Re: Graffiti on ‘Homeland,’ Unnoticed by Producers, Calls Show Racist

#79

Post by bdcravens »

[deleted] wrote: post #74
vijayr wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am conflicted - on one hand it is a great hack, no doubt. But they also screwed over the producers, who trusted them and paid them for their work.

[deleted]

This was addressed in the article.

Re: Graffiti on ‘Homeland,’ Unnoticed by Producers, Calls Show Racist

#80

Post by ashwinaj »

lotyrin wrote: post #70
ashwinaj wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. Thanks for posting this. Everyone likes to shirk personal responsibility and put the blame on others. If you are too challenged to distinguish between real life vs reel life, you should excuse yourself from such matters. EDIT: Thanks for the down votes, the truth is a bitter pill to swallow, isn't it?

And matches are perfectly safe, if you don't happen to be surrounded by flammables. The simple facts are that we have a huge amount of ignorance in the audience for this show, this show takes advantage of that (it is targeted to folks who are not informed about the places and people and groups depicted, otherwise it wouldn't take such extreme artistic license with them) and will have an effect on the views of its aud…

> And matches are perfectly safe, if you don't happen to be surrounded by flammables.

My point goes back to personal responsibility. Whose fault is it if you're surrounded by flammables labeled appropriately? The analogy is that this is labeled as a "TV show" not a documentary.

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