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Police stop guarding embassy refuge of Julian Assange

bbc.com

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Re: Police stop guarding embassy refuge of Julian Assange

#71

Post by gsnedders »

mindcrime wrote: post #63
gsnedders wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A. Because he's wanted for arrest, and you can't arrest someone over Google Hangout / Skype / etc. B. Because the Ecuadorian government required guarantees the Swedish government cannot provide (because it'd be overriding the judiciary).

A. Because he's wanted for arrest, and you can't arrest someone over Google Hangout / Skype / etc. I had thought that one possible outcome of the interview with him would be a decision to not arrest him. If that's the case it seems they'd want to get the interview out of the way by any means, and then if the need to arrest him stands, deal with that then. B. Because the Ecuadorian government required guarantees the S…

The view of the Supreme Court of the United Kingdom was that the "interview" was, in practical terms, equivalent to arrest under English and Welsh law. From memory (though this was years ago!) a formal charge must be occur at the end of an interview. There's no distinction, in the view of the Supreme Court, between the interview and the arrest.

The argument that he's only wanted for interview was a large part of his defence prior to entering the embassy, and was entirely shot down by the courts.

Re: Police stop guarding embassy refuge of Julian Assange

#72

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

minority-one wrote: post #53
polack wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was actually being serious and I agree with you that it would be good with a defined number.

If you're being serious then I'll give you a serious answer. Exempli gratia, let's pretend I was raped. I should be able to reify my victimhood and sell it to a lawyer, thereby transferring to that lawyer the right to extract compensation from the perpetrator. Now there's a market for it and the price is whatever a lawyer is willing to pay. You will quickly see a market form around it. This was done in Medieval Icela…

Did you perhaps mean "monetise" and not "refiy"?

Incidentally, you've just created a market for rape, and persuaded rich people that rape is just fine because they can afford pay off most victims.

For very rich people, that means practically all possible victims.

For poor people, that means practically all possible victims because they can't afford to pay anyone anyway.

Is this really a workable view of criminality and justice?

Re: Police stop guarding embassy refuge of Julian Assange

#73

Post by CyberDildonics »

dogma1138 wrote: post #62
jessaustin wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps they suspected an escape or extradition attempt with a well-funded commando-style raid?

I don't think that Sweden will storm a foreign embassy in a foreign country non the least, and if the US wanted him that bad they would've gotten him already. The guard most likely wasn't to keep him safe, but to keep him in the embassy at all time, this is the same kind of guard that a US diplomat would've gotten while visiting the USSR and probably still gets when they visit Russia and vice versa.

The US wants him badly. It insinuates the rape allegations were to get him extradited to Sweden where he would then be extradited to the US.

Re: Police stop guarding embassy refuge of Julian Assange

#75

Post by dogma1138 »

CyberDildonics wrote: post #73
dogma1138 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that Sweden will storm a foreign embassy in a foreign country non the least, and if the US wanted him that bad they would've gotten him already. The guard most likely wasn't to keep him safe, but to keep him in the embassy at all time, this is the same kind of guard that a US diplomat would've gotten while visiting the USSR and probably still gets when they visit Russia and vice versa.

The US wants him badly. It insinuates the rape allegations were to get him extradited to Sweden where he would then be extradited to the US.

I think we have different definitions of what "badly" means when we are talking about the full might of the United States, if they wanted him badly Cathryn would've been making zero-dark-frothy by now. Also the rape charges pre-date most of the embarrassing leaks on Wikileaks, not to mention that a trial in Sweden of all countries is not the place you threaten some one with, and the US-Swedish extradition treaty makes it unlikely for that to ever happen.

And most importantly he's been held up in the Ecuadorian embassy not the Russian one, Ecuador is the 4th largest receiver of US Economic and Military aid in South America the US also provides loan guarantees for most of Ecuadors loans including the recent 10bln USD loan from China which was secured through the IIC which is a US body.

Re: Police stop guarding embassy refuge of Julian Assange

#76

Post by lawnchair_larry »

polack wrote: post #16
yc1010 wrote: post #3

"The estimated cost of the police presence is more than £12m." So who should get fired for such a waste of police resources?

So whats the limit on how much society should spend to seek justice if someone raped you?

What does rape have to do with this situation?

Re: Police stop guarding embassy refuge of Julian Assange

#77

Post by ricksplat »

samstave wrote: post #43
sylvinus wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's pretty easy to find reasonable multiples on your assumptions. It's London and they might not be average policemen: salary x2 ; Overtime/nighttime: x2, Administrative overhead (they must spend time reporting, at the precinct, ...): x2 ; Multiple policemen (1 would not be enough to act): x3-x5 ; Management of those officers & briefings: x2-x3 ; That's already ~x100 and it's human costs only.

I don't believe most of these numbers. I'll be back later with a spreadsheet Why am I being downvoted? Seriously, this math calculates to me differently in my head - so I am going to put a spreadsheet together to see if these costs are real. Ill assume the avg salary stated above, plus the hours and schedules. I can't believe that some beat officer is going to inflate costs 2x for doing reporting. I HIGHLY doubt ther…

They're probably not "Beat" cops, there are highly paid special branch and detectives too. Lets say on £80k each. There's all the intelligence activities that go into this. As somebody else mentioned overtime, other costs such as surveillance equipment, maintaining a situation room, heating, and food, helicopters, public relations christ the costs go on and on ...

Hahahahaha - "beat" officers

Re: Police stop guarding embassy refuge of Julian Assange

#79

Post by talmand »

olavk wrote: post #67
talmand wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious. Is this that all that is needed to be prosecuted for a public crime such as this is for someone to accuse you? Whether they are connected to the alleged crime or not? Whether there is a victim or not? For that matter, how can one be prosecuted with no charges? I think I may be misunderstanding the context of the terms.

If you commit a murder, the victim is dead and can't raise charges. You can still be prosecuted.

Although I think that's an excellent example of a reason for the state to press charges, I think it's rather obvious that's a different matter. I would imagine one could argue that the victim in the case is potentially the state itself.

I'm thinking more along the lines that there is a clear cut victim of the alleged crime that refuses to file charges and the state does it in their stead. It would seem that the lack of charges from the alleged victim is the first defense of the accused, even the victim disagrees with the state.

Re: Police stop guarding embassy refuge of Julian Assange

#80

Post by samstave »

ricksplat wrote: post #77
samstave wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't believe most of these numbers. I'll be back later with a spreadsheet Why am I being downvoted? Seriously, this math calculates to me differently in my head - so I am going to put a spreadsheet together to see if these costs are real. Ill assume the avg salary stated above, plus the hours and schedules. I can't believe that some beat officer is going to inflate costs 2x for doing reporting. I HIGHLY doubt ther…

They're probably not "Beat" cops, there are highly paid special branch and detectives too. Lets say on £80k each. There's all the intelligence activities that go into this. As somebody else mentioned overtime, other costs such as surveillance equipment, maintaining a situation room, heating, and food, helicopters, public relations christ the costs go on and on ... Hahahahaha - "beat" officers

Heh, Yeah I didnt really mean "beat" officers, per se... but I am refering to officers that are simply guarding an already guarded building for political reasons...

I hadn't thought of the officers as being some elite force -- though I have no idea if they are, although assuming they may be lowly "beat"-like types is not a good assumption. :-)

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