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Germany's Wi-Fi Shortage Set to Ease as Merkel Backs New Bill

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Re: Germany's Wi-Fi Shortage Set to Ease as Merkel Backs New Bill

#71

Post by jdmichal »

TheCoelacanth wrote: post #56
jdmichal wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the point is to clearly shift the moral hazard away from the provider to the user. The user may not uphold the agreement, but then they are clearly the morally wrong party.

Why not simply give the moral hazard to the user by default? If I give someone a pen and paper and they use it to write a letter ordering a terrorist attack, am I morally responsible for the attack simply because I didn't get them to agree to use it lawfully?

> Why not simply give the moral hazard to the user by default?

I agree, but in this case the German law has very clearly decided that this is not the default. And so this new law is seeking to address that.

Re: Germany's Wi-Fi Shortage Set to Ease as Merkel Backs New Bill

#72

Post by expertentipp »

> as long as they secure the network properly

How do I prove it? This right here is so abmahnung trolls can keep on threatening

> and get users to agree not to act illegally

Yet another useless popup, cookie popup is not enough

> ”digital agenda” aimed at blanketing the country with high-speed Internet by 2018

A yeah, "VDSL for all". Where do I buy VDSL modem in 2018? I will have to break into Technisches Museum and steal one (no, I don't want your "free" fritzbox)

Re: Germany's Wi-Fi Shortage Set to Ease as Merkel Backs New Bill

#73

Post by pluma »

skrebbel wrote: post #49
neuronic wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you ever take a look who sits in the European Parliament and European Commission? Introducing Günther Oettinger, the European Commissioner for Digital Economy and Society: (wait for his English at the 0:20 mark) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88OGXLFpeMw As a German I am completely embarrassed.

wait, you're embarrassed because a politician has an accent when speaking English?

Calling it an accent is an understatement.

He's basically reading off a script word-by-word with German phonemes. He sounds like a first year English student forced to read out loud from a text book he's never read before.

It's not that he has an accent. It's that his English skills are ridiculous for the position he is in. English is taught throughout all high school education in Germany and fluency in English is required or at least recommended for the vast majority of jobs.

He's not just any politician either. He's not some lowly drone in a communal government branch. His office involves a lot of international communication and English is the standard language for most of it.

But there's a bias here: he's mostly ridiculed by younger Germans. His English (just like Merkel's) is on par for his generation. It's not entirely ridiculous when you consider that he likely grew up in times when learning English wasn't considered as important as it is now -- my grandmother speaks no English whatsoever and my parents-in-law just barely understand some basics.

If young Americans groan about their presidents' "dad jokes", this is more like being embarrassed by your grandparents.

Re: Germany's Wi-Fi Shortage Set to Ease as Merkel Backs New Bill

#74

Post by ginko »

ajmurmann wrote: post #11
Someone1234 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Merkel was in bed with some green guy named Benjamin. What a misguided reference. Last I checked no Euro note or coin has anyone called "Benjamin" on them, in fact they don't have people on them at all, they're places. Americans really need to stop using the Benjamin/Jackson/etc thing online to describe money, it isn't a clever reference even in relation to US currency and just comes across as ignorant when used to…

I actually misunderstood the entire statement because of this. I thought this was happening because of a politician from the green party and was going over green party politicians to figure out whom could possible me meant. I live in the US since 8 years and still misunderstood it.

That was my thought as well.

Re: Germany's Wi-Fi Shortage Set to Ease as Merkel Backs New Bill

#75

Post by eis »

detaro wrote: post #45
eis wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe that's because it stands for Local Area Network? WLAN (Wireless Local Area Network) are not long distance networks so it's a correct term. A WiFi network is a WLAN but not all WLANs are WiFi networks. WiFi is a trademark used for certified devices that adhere to the rules defined by the WiFi-Alliance consortium.

Is a WiFi powered directional link between two towers really a WLAN? ;)

Yes, unless your towers are that far away from each other that the distance would be considered a "large geographical distance" making it a WAN (Wide Area Network).

Re: Germany's Wi-Fi Shortage Set to Ease as Merkel Backs New Bill

#76

Post by pluma »

lucb1e wrote: post #63

Oh, that explains. I've always wondered why there are so incredibly few hotspots in Germany - and the few existing hotspots are paid. Voiced it a few times to Germans but nobody knew it was because operators would be held liable.

Yeah, it's not common knowledge how the law works for public providers. Most people just know that keeping their own WiFi unprotected is dangerous.

That said, this seems to slowly change. Long-distance bus services have sprung up recently (I think there was a change in regulations) and a lot of them provide free, no-hassle open WiFi. Of course they tend to block the big streaming sites (e.g. YouTube) due to the bandwidth limitations, but it's still better than the WiFi you get on long-distance express trains (which requires you to have an account with the network provider and AFAIK isn't free).

Re: Germany's Wi-Fi Shortage Set to Ease as Merkel Backs New Bill

#77

Post by mahouse »

briandear wrote: post #40
rotoole wrote: post #24

This is an issue across many EU countries, that require by law that WiFi providers track what their users do online, and to keep a permanent record of it. Its onerous to implement and support. I believe it arose from anti-terrorism legislation.

It also feels like Stasi era nonsense. If someone borrows my phone, must I record the call?

Yes obviously, how do you prove it was not you who made the call?

Re: Germany's Wi-Fi Shortage Set to Ease as Merkel Backs New Bill

#78

Post by chopin »

briandear wrote: post #40
rotoole wrote: post #24

This is an issue across many EU countries, that require by law that WiFi providers track what their users do online, and to keep a permanent record of it. Its onerous to implement and support. I believe it arose from anti-terrorism legislation.

It also feels like Stasi era nonsense. If someone borrows my phone, must I record the call?

No, but the contents will be attributed to you...

Re: Germany's Wi-Fi Shortage Set to Ease as Merkel Backs New Bill

#79

Post by pluma »

denzil_correa wrote: post #12
pm3003 wrote: post #6

From the "WLAN" café I spent 2 weeks to find in Kiel (currently in a seminar, no internet access), and having just paid my €40 bill for 6 GB (bad) 3G Internet this month, I fully approve this bill. I also hope at some point cellular internet will get cheaper in Germany... France 20€ 20 GB, Latvia 10 € 20GB with LTE, Germany 500MB 12€.

> From the "WLAN" café Is there any other country which calls WiFi as WLAN? I have traveled to many countries in Europe but I assume Germany, France and Luxembourg seem to be the only countries that use this term.

Just a sidenote: I think the reason the term "WiFi" never caught on in Germany is that

1. It sounds really awkward in German (most speakers will pronounce the "W" as in German, i.e. "Vi-Fi").

2. WLAN is easier to say (think "V-LAN").

3. It can easily be confused with "HiFi" (which, btw, is commonly pronounced as "Hi-Fee" for some reason, creating additional confusion about the acceptable pronunciation of "WiFi" in German).

Another interesting(?) note: unlike WLAN, LAN is commonly pronounced with a long "a" in German. I'm pretty sure I've heard the word "LAN" used a lot less since WiFi became so widely used and most people seem to just use the German word "Netzwerk" (network) or even simply "Netz" (net). Confusingly, a lack of "Netz" ("Ich hab kaum Netz" -- "I have barely any net") can also refer to mobile connections (because "Handynetz" = cellular network -- and yes "Handy" is a faux-English word commonly used in German to refer to mobile phones because marketing is stupid).

Re: Germany's Wi-Fi Shortage Set to Ease as Merkel Backs New Bill

#80

Post by pluma »

return0 wrote: post #22
Someone1234 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Merkel was in bed with some green guy named Benjamin. What a misguided reference. Last I checked no Euro note or coin has anyone called "Benjamin" on them, in fact they don't have people on them at all, they're places. Americans really need to stop using the Benjamin/Jackson/etc thing online to describe money, it isn't a clever reference even in relation to US currency and just comes across as ignorant when used to…

> they're places Not even real. Fictional arches & bridges.

They are intended to represent historical building styles of Europe without bias to any particular country. They used to be fictional, then someone built them because they wanted to prove a point.

And that, precisely, is why we can't have nice things.

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