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Tim Cook Speaks Up

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Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#691

Post by sinisterbend »

dwild wrote: post #301
scragg wrote: post #275

I am a white male married to a black female with 2 mixed kids living in Texas. While we haven't experienced much bigotry our way, it has happened. The first time I was filled with disbelief and shortly after rage while my wife (then gf) cried. Our lives would be different if we were born a generation ago. Thank you MLK and Tim Cook.

Have you experienced that only from older people? We can only hope that this kind of bigotry go away with new generations.

reddit and similar sites are basically overflowing with teenage/20-something white male racists, so I'm guessing no...

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#692

Post by grecy »

mikestew wrote: post #599
grecy wrote: post #570

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh I saw it. That's exactly what I'm talking about. The United States constantly labels itself the best country in the world, the pinnacle of democracy and freedom, etc. when unfortunately the reality for millions of people is not so good.

Right, because there are no rednecks in the rest of the world, just an atmosphere of openness and a complete lack of xenophobia. The reality is, tribalism and convenient categorization is everywhere, and the United States is not immune. Just because there might be a legal system in place to address discrimination in its various forms does not mean you won't run into close-minded, hateful individuals as you walk down…

> Right, because there are no rednecks in the rest of the world, just an atmosphere of openness and a complete lack of xenophobia.

Of course not. This is not black-or-white, all-or-nothing. There are shades in between.

When a country makes discrimination illegal, it forces people to stop doing it and slowly over time their minds will change, because otherwise they'll run afoul of the law. These days discriminating against a gay person in Canada is akin to discriminating against someone because they're female - it's unheard of, and you'd be quickly silenced and given a stern talking to, if not disciplined (if it was in the workplace)

If the US would hurry up and make discrimination of gay people illegal, the mind-set of people would slowly change. Maybe it would take a generation (or even two), but it's better to start that process now than x years from now.

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#693

Post by jackmaney »

scintill76 wrote: post #634
smtddr wrote: post #618

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I understand your position correctly, then if there really was a prop to ban interracial marriage we should all be okay with that? I don't see any difference between a ban on gay marriage and a ban on interracial marriage. I just want to be sure I understand your calibration settings. If you think a prop on banning interracial marriage should be just as acceptable as what you seem to be saying for prop8, then I'm…

Since you linked xkcd: https://xkcd.com/1431/ It's easy to look down on interracial marriage bans from our oh-so-enlightened modern view, but it took a long time to even get there. You have to look at these ideologies in the context that they were formed in. If the graph is correct, then when Eich donated, same-sex marriage didn't have majority support. (Setting aside what California's specific numbers were.) This is…

> You have to look at these ideologies in the context that they were formed in.

No. No, I do not.

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#694

Post by oldmanjay »

stephencanon wrote: post #327
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it necessary to dismiss belief as somehow self-serving? A bragging athlete is arrogant; a humble one is secretly scheming to take credit. How do you win in that world-view?

If they were truly humble, they'd be thanking their teammates, not a man in the sky. It's offensive to thank god for your touchdown instead of the offensive line. The hand of god didn't descend from the heavens to open that hole you ran through.

Why are they required to be humble? These are people who are largely at the pinnacle of human ability. I think a little bragging is in order.

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#696

Post by jackmaney »

downandout wrote: post #601
rpearl wrote: post #589

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The two sides you paint are not at all equal. Political discourse gets thrown out the window when you are working towards the suppression of the rights of a group of people. If conservative politics is directly linked to bigotry I see no reason we should support it. Perhaps the fiscally conservative, small government political groups should work to dissociate their ideas from intolerance. There is no paradox of toler…

This entire response essentially says that you disagree with his position on the issue. I also disagree with his position on the issue. But here's where we differ. I believe in his right to express his opinion without fear of losing his ability to make a living. You, and the rest of the liberal lynch mob that forced him out, are doing nothing more than suppressing his rights. And thus begins the end of democracy.

If Democracy will end because a bunch of bigots ended up with their panties in a knot, then Democracy was never meant to last. Let it end.

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#697

Post by _xhok »

unknownBits wrote: post #470

I am hetero, and I always asked myself: why all that fuzz about people being gay or anything else. I don't need to be proud to be gay or hetero or whatever, I just don't get it.. I have gay friends and never had anything against people with other sexuality, but I truly hate the Gay Pride in our country. I think it is pathetic to be proud of your sexual orientation and feeling a need to show that off. This will defini…

"I think it is pathetic to be proud of your sexual orientation and feeling a need to show that off."

What makes you think that?

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#698

Post by vacri »

cookiecaper wrote: post #456
aragot wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tim Cook faces 2 years in jail in Singapore if he has activity even in a private room. Three days ago, the Court of Appeal has just judged the law was conform to the constitution, because everyone is guaranteed equal rights no matter their sex, race or religion, and this doesn't include sexuality. The Straits Times: http://www.straitstimes.com/news/singapore/courts-crime/stor... The original judgement: https://s3.ama…

Performing a sexual act is a conscious behavior, wilfully chosen by the participants (except in cases of rape, which is not relevant to this discussion). Law is meant to regulate behaviors. It's valid to make sexual acts illegal. It doesn't violate non-discrimination rights because wilful participation by any person is just as illegal as participation by any other person . Laws that say "this is legal for people with…

Only the most basic principles are protected by things like the American Bill of Rights

"No troops quartered in your house", "you get a jury trial if it involves more than $X", and "powers not taken by the feds are granted to the states" don't seem like 'basic principles' to me. They seem a bit more complex and somewhat arbitrary.

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#699

Post by stackoverflow11 »

emcrazyone wrote: post #655
tommorris wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. After I came out, one of the best things was getting an email from an 18-year-old guy who had read my blog saying that he'd never spoken to or read anything from a gay person in technology and it was cool to read something from someone who as a programmer and geek came from the same perspective as him. He then said he'd gotten the courage to tell his parents from that. Which left me feeling amazing for about…

why "come out." Why do you feel you need to tell others you're gay? I don't feel like I need to tell everyone I'm straight. I never understood this. You're gay, so what? What is this thing with some people feeling like they just have to tell others about their personal sexual orientation; especially in the context of business article. This has nothing to do with Apple. If they wanted to report on Apple's equality the…

> why "come out." Why do you feel you need to tell others you're gay? I don't feel like I need to tell everyone I'm straight.

because it's assumed that you're straight unless told otherwise.

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#700

Post by a_c_s »

byEngineer wrote: post #613
Crito wrote: post #585

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You would not judge a CEO for publicly admitting to being a racist? I do not believe you. I think that you are lying, either to us or to yourself. Calling something "Ideology" is not a "get out of criticism free" card. You are free to have whatever political beliefs you desire, but we are all free to criticism you for your political beliefs. Our criticism of political beliefs is just as political as the beliefs that…

> Calling something "Ideology" is not a "get out of criticism free" card. Of course. It is after all entirely different than: Calling someone "Gay" is not a "get out of criticism free" card. Or: Calling someone "Jew" is not a "get out of criticism free" card. Or: Calling something "Black" is not a "get out of criticism free" card. Or: Calling someone "woman" is not a "get out of criticism free" card. Or: Calling some…

Given that hiring/firing people is a key part of being a CEO, a racist CEO would result in hiring/firing/not promoting talented, capable people based on irrelevant factors. Speaking purely from a business perspective, this will give the company a disadvantage and negatively impact performance.

"Ideology" is too broad of a term the way you are using it: after all, believing that COBOL the ultimate programming language for all use cases could also be labeled an "ideology", one that would make somebody a poor CTO.

Similarly, beliefs that certain groups of people, based on unrelated criterion like gender identity, are inherently inferior to others or deserve lesser treatment, do materially impact the workplace.

Unlike the previous two examples, somebody's personal beliefs about things like religion or their cultural background have nothing to do with job performance.

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